Cochrane, I had not heard of this group, interesting "collaboration"


(John) #1

I was trying to remember who took over Ancel Keys position at Berkley and just happened to notice a Citation Needed in the Seven Countries Study portion and this is what comes after it:

A 2015 systematic review and meta-analysis by the Cochrane Collaboration, an organisation which promotes evidence-based medicine, found that reducing saturated fat intake reduced the risk of cardiovascular disease, concluding: “Lifestyle advice to all those at risk of cardiovascular disease and to lower risk population groups should continue to include permanent reduction of dietary saturated fat and partial replacement by unsaturated fats.” [31]

That line “an organisation which promotes evidence-based medicine” looks way out of place in a Wiki article, it sounds more like an ad. I had never heard of the Cochrane Collaboration so I looked them up, they just go by Cochrane now and are apparently a non-profit run by 35,000 volunteers. The interesting part wasn’t that, but check out the partnership section:

Wikipedia
In October 2013, Wikipedia and Cochrane announced a collaborative venture, the announced goals of which include increasing the incorporation of Cochrane research in Wikipedia articles and providing Wikipedia editors with additional resources and assistance in interpreting medical data.[32] Cochrane and John Wiley and Sons, the publisher of the Cochrane Reviews, provide financial support for the collaboration in the form of 100 free Cochrane Reviews accounts made available to Wikipedia medical editors, the financial value of which has been estimated by Cochrane at $30,000 to $80,000 dollars per annum. Other support includes a nominal stipend and travel expenses for a Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane.[33]

In 2014 the Cochrane blog hosted a rebuttal written by four Wikipedia medical editors, in response to an article critical of the accuracy of Wikipedia medical content published in the Journal of the American Osteopathic Association.[34][35]

World Health Organization
Cochrane has been in official relations with the World Health Organization since 2011.[36] This collaboration includes the right to appoint a representative to participate, without vote, in WHO’s meetings, including at the World Health Assembly, the WHO’s decision-making body.[37] Participation in that assembly allows Cochrane to make expository statements on WHO health resolutions.[37]

So for some reason, though people are free to edit Wikipedia, this group gets to go and publish their work and POV wherever they want and provide “assistance in interpreting medical data” to a Wikipedian they are paying to have on site… sounds shady.

Then they have a collaboration with WHO which ok, but how do you convince an organization like that to afford you " the right to appoint a representative to participate, without vote, in WHO’s meetings, including at the World Health Assembly, the WHO’s decision-making body." If I read that right, they paid a bunch of money to make sure they’re agenda is heard.

Even Wikipedia things their entry is crap

This article may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject
and
This article contains content that is written like an advertisement.

So the citation on that page, where they recommend reduction in saturated fat links to this

It says

Reducing saturated fat reduces serum cholesterol, but effects on other intermediate outcomes may be less clear. Additionally it is unclear whether the energy from saturated fats that are lost in the diet are more helpfully replaced by polyunsaturated fats, monounsaturated fats, carbohydrate or protein. This review is part of a series split from and updating an overarching review.

What? So reducing saturated fat reduces serum cholesterol, but we can’t say what to replace it with. That tells me the interventions probably didn’t do anything.

I’d be interested to see what studies these were, because the 3 studies I have seen don’t show this:

The included long-term trials suggested that reducing dietary saturated fat reduced the risk of cardiovascular events by 17%

Subgrouping suggested that the reduction in cardiovascular events was seen in studies that primarily replaced saturated fat calories with polyunsaturated fat, and no effects were seen in studies replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate or protein, but effects in studies replacing with monounsaturated fats were unclear

So in the beginning when you said “it is unclear whether the energy from saturated fats that are lost in the diet are more helpfully replaced by polyunsaturated fats, monounsaturated fats, carbohydrate or protein.” you kind of lied

no effects were seen in studies replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate or protein,

So, now we have the main statement that you should lower saturated fat to get cholesterol down, but replacing it with carbs or protein does no good. Got it.

The findings of this updated review are suggestive of a small but potentially important reduction in cardiovascular risk on reduction of saturated fat intake.

So nothing conclusive, but suggestive of a small reduction in risk.
But

permanent reduction of dietary saturated fat and partial replacement by unsaturated fats. The ideal type of unsaturated fat is unclear.

Reduce saturated fat and maybe replace it with some other fat? Don’t know which kind though.

Edit: I didn’t link the study they discuss, it is here


(G. Andrew Duthie) #2

The data from a recovered study, which I posted about here:

is relevant to the assertions with respect to reducing saturated fat intake, and the associated drop in serum cholesterol levels. In the recovered data, they found an association between decreased serum cholesterol and increased mortality.


(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #3

Well, not polyunsaturated fat/oil, since it’s been known for years that it’s toxic:

e.g. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fats_and_cancer.html#.WQs_8kXyvcs


(John) #4

I read that, which makes me wonder what studies they used, because it wasn’t this one, or the…was it Sydney Heart study?

I really want to know how a group gets a permanent seat at the table of the WHO that can’t even be voted out.


(John) #5

Exactly, which is why it is very odd that that is their conclusion and recommendation.

Changing the type of fat we eat, replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats, seems to protect us better, reducing our risk of heart and vascular problems.


(G. Andrew Duthie) #6

The other missing piece here is carbs.

Changing the type of dietary fat consumed, in the presence of an overabundance of carbs, may have a completely different than doing so in the context of a well-formulated ketogenic diet. Very hard to sort out any of these effects when they are largely observational (though the link that I posted was data from a fairly large randomized control study).


(Todd Allen) #7

Sounds fishy to me. How can one equate a very unspecific reduction of dietary fat to a very specific reduction of cardiovascular events by 17%?


#8

If you were pharma or food company it would certainly help if you had some friendly people on the Cochrane collaboration.
Alarm bells certainly rang for me when they did a U turn on their position on statin prescription recently seemingly based on poor evidence
https://www.patrickholford.com/blog/how-nice-got-snookered-on-statins


(John) #9

Wow thanks for the post, so much for peer-reviewed if they can get a meta-analysis with missing data and theoretical results published in Lancet.