Clean vs dirty keto- is this real?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #21

First I notice you’re having coffee and 2 T of HWC for breakfast with an ounce or two of cheese for a snack, a lite dinner and two more snacks, one in the middle of the night. My guess is you would do better with two solid meals and a 16/8 IF for a first try. You’re also eating a fair amount of cheese, the casein can be a stall for some people. I am an early riser and wake up ready for coffee and breakfast within an hour usually. I don’t eat again till early dinner usually about 5. My window is a bit larger than what I recommend by I’m doing okay and many people find success with this strategy. Avoid the snacks. If you eat enough fats and protein with your meals you probably won’t have coffee cravings all day either. Keeping your insulin low as long as you can during the day is key to weight loss. That 1 am snack is really working against you. You also don’t seem to be eating many calories although you didn’t post anything from a tracker app. I would just take it as a sign that it’s time to change your eating routine.

You also seem to be exercising a fair amount, that can stall weight loss to and also causes body recomposition where you’re building muscle, losing fat but not weight. Do your clothes fit any different than when you started? You’re not very overweight either if at all, those last few pounds are hard to loose and you’re a woman and your body wants and needs to have a certain amount of fat biologically so if you’re trying to push below the level that you’re body’s metabolism wants it’s going to fight back to keep it.

I used to wake up at 1-2am with leg and arm cramps (restless limb syndrome they called it). I would get out of bed, wash dishes or put away clothes or something and had a snack like toast or crackers. My cramping would stop and I would go back to bed. Tried different drugs without much help and when I went keto and got off carbs and sugar they mostly stopped except for a bit occasionally while I am awake but they never wake me up in the night anymore. Are you just doing this because you wake up hungry? I would suggest drinking a glass of water and trying to get back to sleeping.

I’m going to drop off here and maybe some others will chime in. Good Luck :cowboy_hat_face:

(Summer) #22

Does fasting mean from all food or is this from everything??? Water? Coffee?

Also, THANK YOU so much for all of the helpful feedback.

I would like to 125. I believe I have some hormonal issues and I also believe I have food issues; hence the late night eating/snacking. I only let myself “go”, as in eat more than typically, In the PM hours so I don’t feel the guilt. I just sleep it off. Horrible. I do know this. Sadly this is a huge improvement from my past eating disordered life and really waking up eating junk, now that I’m doing keto, at least as junkie.

I’ve struggled with anorexia and bulimia for 20 years so I’ve come far. Mentally I’m still in that mindset, I’m just not starving myself anymore.

(Cindy) #23

I haven’t really seen that type of criticism. I do think it’s important for people to offer what works for them. For some, it’s tracking, for others, it’s eating to satiety. I tend to think, in general, (and this is certainly MY bias) that tracking is given too much importance. I understand it…we want numbers to prove we’re being successful. We want numbers to reassure us that we’re doing it “right” or that if we just follow a macro calculator, we’ll get to where we want to be. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t.

Above all, I think that people need to find what works for THEM and is sustainable. If it’s not sustainable, whether it’s because they don’t like tracking, or the macros aren’t realistic for them, or they’re trying to eat foods they really don’t like, then it’s just another random diet that will be abandoned as soon as the novelty wears off.

(Cindy) #24

Fasting is usually just no food. Water, black coffee and tea is acceptable. Really, though, you also get to define fasting for yourself. :wink: Maybe your fast is coffee with 1 tbsp of HWC because fat doesn’t spike insulin. Since HWC has only a small amount of carbs, as long as you’re careful, you can include it. Some people will eat butter on a fast or have some coconut oil.

Think of it as giving your insulin levels a break.

(Cindy) #25

Sometimes, it helps to re-frame the situation. Instead of thinking about the things you can’t eat, focus on the yummy things you CAN eat. Or think about the carby foods as a poison or seriously damaging to your health.

#26

This. I like this. :fist_right::fist_left:

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #27

Try eating whole food keto meals, not snacking, every time you have a snack, you raise your blood sugar.

Try having your coffee as is, but having a full lunch, no snacking, full dinner, no snacking and don’t get out of bed to eat no matter what. That will be intermitten fasting.

Also try walking more and less running.

So you know where I am coming from, I am a woman of a certain age, as they say in France, and have been in maintenance for almost two years now. Letting go of snacking and fasting got me here and keeps me here. I am 5’3", so not terrible different than you.

Also keto isn’t a weight loss diet, some people just get way healthier because it helps heal your body, the loss is just a bonus. There is a whole long thread on here about what keto has healed for folks.

#28

As I shift my focus away from weight loss and more towards optimal health, my approach to nutrition has become more nuanced. I have a growing appreciation for the importance of food quality, the impact that different fats have on the body, and the under realized, sub optimal response many of us have to various food categories (ie. dairy, wheat, nightshade veggies, eggs, fish, soy). Some of these issues are universal (ie. processed foods, artificial sweeteners, trans fats) but others are idiosyncratic and can only be ascertained through testing or personal experimentation.

Optimal nutrition isn’t only about what we eliminate from the diet, it is also about providing the nutrients our body needs to thrive.

(Maria Ortiz) #29

I agree. If I were to label something “dirty keto” it would be eating processed foods that contain preservatives, added sugars and starches. Like canned foods or other crap that doesn’t seem to need refrigeration. I don’t eat bacon for this reason, it is only a treat. Bacon stalls me.

(Randy) #30

That’s how I approach keto. But I never tell people they’re wrong if they don’t do it “my way”.

I don’t use much sweeteners anymore because I just don’t really crave it. But eat dairy, pork rinds and pepperoni and cheese sometimes. Usually a couple of the dreaded Quest bars a week too. :smile:

I’m a dirty, lazy ketoer. :scream::+1:

(Robert C) #31

I think dirty (or lazy keto) are just as good a starting point as any.

The words themselves carry bad connotations (just like “Keto flu” does versus carb withdrawals) but I think the situation fixes itself over time. If you can stay in ketosis and move toward your goals on the dirty / lazy version of Keto - all good.

But, if you cannot get to your Keto goals (the last 10 pounds for example) with artificial sweeteners - you might “clean” them out.

Same with quest bars, excess dairy, cheap nuts, pepperoni, etc. - if your goal is to lose weight and you’re slowing or stopped - you may have to start suspecting some of these. Lots of fasting and exercise might move you along but, it still might be worth a clean-up of the diet to see if something you don’t actually care about much in your not-so-clean diet could be skipped instead.

#32

I mean anyone who has done a whole 30 probably has a very good understanding of what chemicals, processed foods and allergy/inflammatory foods can do to you. It’s not like it’s not real - these things affect people in some (but different) ways.

(Cindy) #33

I’ve done a couple rounds of Whole30. Never did notice any significant improvement in joint pain, itchiness, etc. 2 weeks into keto and I noticed quite a bit of improvement in joint pain…itchiness, not so much. LOL

(Summer) #34

What are the benefits of walking verses running?

#35

It’s when you do the re-introduction when you see which things do what. The itchiness could be environmental? Dust mold polen? I get terrible hives and itchiness.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #36

Dr. Westman’s page four allows deli meats. I love them but am getting grossed out by the ingredients, even if they are only one or two carbs

(Full Metal KETO AF) #37

Walking is a healthy movement activity, running at the start of keto especially is a stress on your body and causes the release of cortisol which can affect your metabolism making you want more food and slowing or even stopping weight loss. At least that’s what I have gotten here, I don’t run because I can’t. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #38

Are you sure about that, it’s the first time I have ever heard that in relation to eating ketogenic. Bacon has a perfect macro profile for keto. There’s a whole group on Facebook called “The Bacon Experiment” where people eat nothing but bacon from 1-4 weeks and virtually everyone looses weight, sometimes as much as 20-25 lbs in a month (granted probably new keto eaters with water weight). :cowboy_hat_face:

(Maria Ortiz) #39

Yup. There are 3 things that stall me on keto. Bacon, peanut butter, and ALL artificial sweeteners/sugar alcohols. After nearly a decade on keto, I’ve done many experiments with each of these foods, the result is always the same. No weight loss, and like clockwork, weight loss resumes once the item is eliminated.

#40

I have been suspicious about bacon lately, was finally slowly losing a little weight, ate bacon two days and both days it went back up…I don’t know what it is BUT I now know it is bacon. I wonder if it’s an inflammatory response or if it throws off my electrolytes… I seem to be perfectly fine with bacon fat, but was just telling my husband last night that I need to stop eating bacon for a while…:cry: