Chronic pain and fasting/keto

keto
fasting
(Lisa ) #1

Hi there. I’m really interested to hear from anyone who suffers from chronic pain. I’ve had chronic abdominal pain since a botched surgery 3 years ago. I also see it on an almost daily basis at work.

My questions are:

  1. What have you found most effective for pain management? Eg physio, psychology, medications, diet and exercise etc
  2. Has a ketogenic diet or fasting improved or exacerbated your pain?
  3. Do you think that we as doctors manage pain well? Why or why not? (I can tell you now I think we DO NOT)
  4. Have you ever been treated like a difficult patient or even been labelled a drug-seeker? How did you cope with that?

Really interested to hear any feedback about these questions! Lisa

(Casey Crisler) #2

I have not had any improvement in pain since going keto. In fact, my knees and shins seem to have gotten worse. Although, this could be attributed to the running and hiking, which I didn’t do BK (before Keto). I have a pain in my thumb area that hasn’t gone away - even a little bit. I tend to get migraine auras more often although the headaches don’t come. I hadn’t had any migraine issues in 20+ years. I still have my back pain too. However, none of this will make me go back to the SAD. I’m still holding out hope for the pain to go away or lessen. The only way I’ve been able to manage the pain is with knee wraps and a wrist/thumb stabilizer. Icing helps some as does an occasional Aleve. Ketoaide did seem to help the migraine aura issue once.

No doctor has really ever done anything to help my chronic pain (except meds). I’ve had at least 3 occasions where I’ve had PT for the same lower back issue. The pain still flares up though.

I’m going to try yoga at some point. Maybe that’s the answer.

No, to the last question.

(Edith) #3

Hi @Clcrisler, I would probably be diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis if I ate dairy, even tiny quantities. Dairy gives me an itchy scalp along with painfully itchy bumps on my scalp and back. It also gives me painful joints, especially my lower back.

Maybe there is something in your diet keeping you from reaping more anti inflammatory benefits from keto?

(Casey Crisler) #4

You might be on to something. I forgot to mention my nose has been constantly runny since keto. Never had before. My vegan friend suggested eliminating dairy to see if that helps. So I was actually going to try that once I use up what I have.

(Candy Lind) #5

Watching! I am very interested in what you find. Maybe a google survey would help data collection.

My knee pain is much improved with keto (at least in part from weight loss). I still have thumb pain in both hands. But I’m down from 1500mg relafen (Rx) to 600 mg ibuprofen twice daily. I wonder if 400 3x daily would work better?

Some docs are better than others at pain management. I think they fail to emphasize it post-surgery as they should.

Off-topic: can’t you get any corrective action to relieve your abdominal pain? That’s such a bummer that a procedure that’s supposed to help would cause more grief.

#6

I had chronic pain cause by a trapped nerve in my neck going undiagnosed/misdiagnosed for a year. I wasn’t treated like a drug-seeker but I was treated like a youngish/healthy-woman-who-should-really just-deal-with-it-because-everybody-has-pain. Eventually landed with a slightly more sympathetic doctor in training who admitted he had no idea but thought amitriptyline (sp?) might help. Told me to start at 10mg & if no relief in two weeks to up the dose & hope for the best. I asked the pharmacists advice & she said give it 6 weeks at 10mg as it can take that long to kick in. Pharmacist was correct & 6 weeks later I finally slept more than 2 hours a night for the first time in a very long time. I took my self off the drug a year later having had a lot of physio & touch wood am doing OK. I still (some 5 years later) have regular physio and that has helped enormously. Not sure if keto contributed but it does make me feel better in general so it sure doesn’t hurt. I’ve not got a lot of faith in doctors now I’m afraid.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

My experience, as well. Turns out I don’t even get auras if I keep my salt intake up, and when I forget, a little salt is enough to terminate the aura within a minute or two.

Keto has improved the arthritis in my knee (partly by lowering my weight, of course), but it has done nothing for the arthritis in my neck. However, the most recent round of physical therapy for an injured shoulder has also improved the neck somewhat.

The rest of my experience with pain and treatment for it is not something I want to post in a public forum.

I don’t mind admitting, however, that I am a difficult, demanding patient. While I am polite to, cooperative with, and profusely grateful to, professionals who know what they are doing, I am capable of dealing harshly with incompetents and the lazy—and more likely to do so—even while drugged up and ill.

(Robert C) #8

If it is a stomach issue, if I were you I would try and extended salt + potassium + water only fast (over a week - no meds).
Sort of to reset my microbiome but also to give the system a rest (especially from absorbing meds).
I would tough it out and see if there is a change.

Oops - forgot to add - no alcohol, no caffeine.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #9

I suffer from bone pain related to multiple myeloma, mostly back pain and peripheral neuropathy caused by chemo. The MOST effective pain management for me are NSAIDS but I’m not supposed to take them so I don’t often. Walking at a moderate pace helps tremendously, positive self talk is soothing and encouraging. I use topical lidocaine sold over the counter and icy hot. Rest is very helpful and often overlooked.

Keto has taken away the aches and pains (flu like malaise) that I personally associate with some sort of allergic reaction my body has to something with carbs in it. I never really knew what, though.

I don’t think docs manage pain well. I tore a muscle in my back years ago and was put on opiates and muscle relaxers for 8 months until one day my doc said she wasn’t going to prescribe them anymore. I became a drug seeker to manage withdrawal. During that time the pain was relentless. I’ve been opiate free for 6 years (except for my hospital stay for a bone marrow transplant) and I truly believe opiates exacerbate pain for me. I think prescribing them long term is counterproductive. I suffer from depression and understand now that they managed my anxiety and sadness which contributed to my psychological addiction.

I never told my docs or anyone about my addiction because I didn’t want to be labeled for life. I reserve the right to receive appropriate pain management in case of accident or cancer relapse without being hassled. I asked for Toradol injection once and the nurses and docs treated me like the Queen of England for suggesting a non opiate treatment. I feel like EVERYONE who asks for pain management is treated like a drug seeker and it’s better to just avoid asking. It’s a sad state we’re in here in the US.

(Michelle) #10

I don’t know what constitutes chronic pain, but I had hip bursitis for five years due to my weight combined with crooked hips because I had one (very) flat foot. It was the hip opposite my flat foot because that side of my hip was slightly higher than the other. I had surgery to correct that flat foot last December. It was extensive. My heel bone was cut off and moved, I have cadaver bones added to my first metatarsal as well as to the outer side of my heel bone. The most painful part of the surgery was Achilles’ tendon lengthening. The recovery from this surgery was expected to last a full year. I started keto in May at 235# on my 5’5” frame. I’ve lost 41# which has helped with the pain, but the pain diminished so quickly that I don’t think the pain relief came from weight loss. I think it came from the anti-inflammatory benefits of keto.

I still have a full bottle of narcotics - I took them for three days after the surgery. I have a high pain tolerance. The surgeon offered meds several times, and even offered to write a prescription in case I changed my mind.

(KCKO, KCFO) #11

Thanks for sharing your story. Congrats on 6 years of self managment.

I’m making note of the drug you requested, never heard of it. I have no desire to use any opiate treatments, ever.

(Louisa) #12

hi. I suffer from systemic lupus erythematosus syndrome, and I struggle with joint pain and inflammation of the soft tissues around my bones. Pain is most often treated with painkillers. I tried different medications. Once upon a time I turned to psychologists, even tried hypnosis. It didn’t help me, but I kept looking for something that could help me. Once in the hospital, a doctor recommended oxycodone as a good painkiller. You know, I thought it was just another ineffective drug, but it’s very good at relieving pain. I felt much better after taking oxycodone. I order it here http://mypillsontime.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=13. Hope I could help you :slight_smile:

#13
  1. Hydrotherapy, walking in warm water is the only thing other than medications that help my knee pain. Surgery cancelled 6x due to Covid, way overdue.
  2. Keto hasn’t made a difference to my pain. long fasting does, but it is 3 weeks- a month before that pain relief kicks in and my dietitian (keto) doesn’t want me to fast before the surgery (due to possible muscle wasting). Can’t walk on land much at present due to pain.
  3. No. I am prescribed opiates which I avoid taking as I believe they are harmful. I cannot get Cannabinol as I am not having palliative care. I regard this as really poor pain management.
  4. I am labelled a drug avoider, have never been labelled a drug seeker. Possibly labelled a difficult patient by doctors who can’t keep up. Am drug avoidant and take the opiates only when the pain is excruciating.
(Deb) #14

I have fbss (failed back surgery syndrome) and 4 bulging discs in my thoracic area. Keto hasn’t helped pain but losing 80 lbs of fat certainly helped my depression!
I have tried everything my pain mgmt dr has thrown at me, including having 2 14 gauge wires shoved up and permanently implanted in my spinal column for a wireless spinal cord stimulator that is useless. Oh well. I have voluntarily taken myself off the hard narcotics and have a regimen that works (for the most part) , keeps me working full time and even work out occasionally. So I think it depends on the dr and patient to get there. Everyone is different.
As for being treated as a drug seeker: oh hell yes. Not long after my fusion, in such excruciating pain and went to er. Didn’t even ask for anything. I thought my hardware was loose or something. I was laying on my side curled up crying and female dr came in with glove on and stuck her finger up my ass. Seriously. Guess she knew I wasn’t faking when I didn’t even move. Of course, I’m sure she wasn’t too happy when I turned her into local medical board!

(KCKO, KCFO) #15

That sounds awful. Hope you get the pain management sorted out.

Congrats on the weight loss, I’m sure that does help a tad with the overall situation and these days, depression must be kept a bay.

Sending healing thoughts your way.

#16

Chronic pain is a tough thing to deal with, but it’s good to know we’re not alone in it.