Cheat or carb cycle?


(Luke) #1

Interested to see how many people allow them selves a cheat day or add carbs back in day if you want to call it that , every now and then. I haven’t cheated with food yet as I like the keto foods it’s normally how I eat anyway but about once a month and it has to be for an occasion , wedding , bday , Xmas day ect. I allow myself to consume alcohol. There is no real way to do it without kicking myself out of keto but I am always back in the next day , I test out of curiosity as sometimes I consume many drinks of all types full of sugar and everything. I believe it doesn’t even cost me a full day out of ketosis , more like just hours. (6-8) Tell me your story if you do it , I’m interested. Cheers!


#2

Hi Luke, I’m sure there’ll be lots of varied answers here, and hopefully some valuable input, meanwhile I will just share my own thoughts.

I listened to a podcast with two women discussing the terms abstainer and moderator. Now a moderator can have just a little of this or a little of that, say, a small slice of cake on someone’s wedding day, and not then proceed to eat a lot more, an abstainer, once having that taste, would quickly begin to crave those sort of foods again, and likely cave.

Now experience tells me I am a moderator and my SO is an abstainer. Although he doesn’t actually abstain from his favourite foods as he eats a high carb, high fat WOE. I am a moderator, although a peculiar thing happens when you eat ketogenically and cut out refined carbs, sugar, etc, you find after a while you simply don’t want them as much, and then a little further on, perhaps not at all. I’ve been eating 10-13 almonds in the mornings, and am happy with that amount. At the start of my keto journey I was having a square of dark chocolate everyday. I clung to that for a while to keep my old beloved treat, but then I lost interest in it and gave it up altogether. Lately I’ve been cutting down on my dairy, I’m actually losing interest in my whipped cream so don’t bother, but a little cream in my coffee in the morning and afternoon is still nice. What I’m trying to say is that your body will change, your appetites will change. I was high carb, low fat, before I began keto and though I was slim I suspect I wasn’t metabolically healthy. I am so much happier now with these foods, just love the simplicity of it. But that’s me. I don’t have cheat days, I just don’t see the need. Who knows, perhaps a bit further down the keto road, you’ll find it less important too. We all have to do what’s right for us.


#3

A lot of this is individual, down to age, sex, illnesses you may have, medications you may take, environment etc.

Some people can be in ketosis whilst intaking relatively high levels of carbohydrates - so can eat or drink what appear to be carb/sugar laden foods without issue.

Some people are great moderators - they can do something as a one-off for a celebration, and then get right back on this way of eating.

Some work out extensively and find that cycling carbs has improved their progress in the gym.

But on the flipside, some people struggle with carb/sugar addiction. For these people, it’s best to abstain.

Some people find that as they’re longer into this way of eating, having cheats loses its appeal.

For me, although I can remember that I enjoyed certain foods from old ways of eating, I eventually lost interest in them completely.

This didn’t happen to me when I first did keto. It took a while and I think losing my sugar addiction was key to this. The first time I did keto, I consumed a large amount of artificial sweeteners, which I think perpetuated that sugar addiction.

It’ll be interesting to see how you go over time. I know some people who drink alcohol every weekend on this way of eating and are happy with their success. For me, I enjoyed alcohol but I gave it up a year ago when - just like sugar - I suddenly lost interest in it.

But, hands up, I am definitely an abstainer. Someone who is able to moderate will have a very different viewpoint - and neither one is wrong; it’s individual.


(Allie) #4

If I want to eat carbs, I eat carbs.
No need to give it any sort of name.


#5

Hi Allie, it’s all so individual what works for us. My experience has been, I eat a small negligible amount of something, but then start to lose interest. It’s odd. Lately I’ve been losing interest in cream, just by cutting down. I was eating bowls of whipped cream. I can’t be bothered to eat it anymore. Now I just pour a little cream into my morning coffee and leave it at that. However, when I cut dairy out drastically, like just quit, my body was telling me it needed it back, badly. That was more of a psychological thing. Because I had simply cut it out I thought I was depriving myself. By reinstating it and then cutting it down, however, my body just began wanting less and less.


(Luke) #6

Hi thanks for your view. One point you made about staying in ketosis while eating high carb foods made me think I may be doing so. I never new about this it’s Interesting. As I had a few drinks I thought it would kick me out for sure. But after a coffee this morning I tested at 1.4 which is apparently I good level of ketosis , I wondered if I stayed in keeping in mind I would not drink more often if I am. Try and keep those dates with alcohol only for every now and then as it’s obvious not the greatest thing for your body.


(Luke) #7

I guess this was aimed more towards people wanting to stay in ketosis😉


#8

Hi Luke, the same applies to alcohol, as it is essentially carbs, sugar. Either you are a moderator or an abstainer. If the former then I see no problem in you indulging a little on those special occasions. But as Septimius pointed out, the incentive for doing keto is different for everyone. I do it to combat a condition, whilst also battling side effects of a medication. And so, to me staying in ketosis is important. But for some, who just want to be more healthy generally, without any health issues, staying in ketosis is perhaps not quite as important. There is some discussion whether staying in ketosis in the long term is even all that healthy, or if cycling in and out of it would be healthier. I don’t pretend to know the answer. Some, as I’m sure others will tell you, are insulin sensitive enough that they can include more carbs on their WOE while some are battling insulin resistance. It is all very individual.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

As a carbohydrate addict, doing this is very risky for me. I find that, even if I remain in ketosis, too much carbohydrate leads to a return of my joint pain and some skin problems that I don’t have to deal with when my carb intake is low enough. While I no longer crave sugary foods, such as the glazed doughnuts that were my carb of choice years ago, I am still vulnerable to bread and pasta, when people leave them lying around the house. And yielding to the craving is always a bad idea.


(Allie) #10

Keto since 2015 so not something I worry about as I know I can get back on track quickly and very easily.


(Marianne) #11

I’ve been on clean keto (zc now) for four years in Feb. During that time, I’ve only cheated a couple of times, once was at a wedding when I binged out on cake and sweets, and the other was when I hosted a party and had cheese (ok) and butter crackers (I used to love butter crackers). It’s not worth it and for me, one cheat day would lead to indulging more and more often. Food is my drug. I find that my cravings are gone as long as I stay on clean keto.


(Chuck) #12

We are all different individuals and we have to experiment and find what works for, you the individual, and you the individual has to know what your goals are and steadily work towards them or maintain them.
I know this so far, wheat is my biggest issue, but I am not allowing myself anything with any grains in it, I am also not eating potatoes at this time. I have weight to lose and fat to get rid of.
I have only been doing keto, low carb since the first of September this last year so I am still learning what works and what doesn’t. At this time I am learning I can eat more calories than I have ever eaten on the standard American diet and still lose weight. I am learning that I can lose inches from my body without losing weight. I am learning I can lose the inches and weight without working out all of the time. I am learning that I live much better without sweets, bread, and desserts. I am relearning that I can eat the meats I was raise on and love.I am learning that fruit is okay as long as I keep it to a minimum. So far I have found that 50 total carbs a day is a very doable amount for me to do and still lose fat.

Find your own way, more than likely it will be nothing like your friends and more than like not even like your families.


(Jane) #13

Hard liquor does not have any carbs. Wine and beer - yes, but not whiskey, rum, etc.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

Technically, I suppose alcohol is a carbohydrate, but your point is well-taken.

On the other hand, the big issue with alcohol is that it, fructose, and branched-chain amino acids are all processed by the same pathway in the liver, and this pathway is easily overwhelmed. And when the pathway has more to deal with than it can handle, the result is fatty liver disease and insulin-resistance of the liver.


(Jane) #15

Personally, my husband and I are bother moderators so occassionally having extra carbs is no big deal. We are over 5 years keto and this is the way we eat most of the time and happy with it. A special event or dinner party we will have small portions of the carbier veggies. My husband will have a small dessert - I don’t waste my cards on sugar as I prefer savory, salty carbs.

YMMV.


(Chuck) #16

I do cheat every once in awhile and drink a beer or small glass of wine. But it has to fit into my daily total carbs limit of 50.


#17

I never ever call it cheating as it isn’t, I don’t cheat anyone. I eat whatever I fancy.

And yep, my last sentence again, if I fancy something, I eat it, carbs be damned, it pretty much describes how I function around food. Though it says little about how I actually eat… February is carnivore, for example. Not 100% but super close. It means I eat tiny plant matter. It doesn’t mean I don’t have days with 45g sugar but that’s about 44g ANIMAL sugar :smiley: And it’s very rare anyway. And keto as it’s too low to put me out of ketosis according to my old experiences (I am unable to tell if I am in and out nowadays, nothing changes - and due to that, I don’t even care).

Alcohol? I drink it whenever it crosses my mind, actually. Sometimes it’s very frequent like 3 times a month, other times 2 months pass without the thought… I never met anyone with lower non-zero alcohol consumption per time. So it doesn’t matter.
17ml vodka probably fails spectacularly to kick me out of ketosis :wink: The 7dl milk is probably worse… But who cares if I fancy it? Not me.

I am very much both, it depends on the items. Alcohol? I couldn’t overdo it if I wanted! Peanuts? I can eat 1g, no problem. (10-13 almonds are A LOT, I never could do that without force. But I don’t like them as much as peanuts…) But I can eat much more as well, nothing extreme but still, too much.
Soft bread type thing I just made and it got awesome? I inhale the whole loaf (maybe just half as I have an SO and a heart.)
If I am hungry like hell, most things aren’t safe… I eat proper food when hungry though so things should be okay.

People change over time too. I am WAY better at moderation that 10 years ago or even 5 and a big part of this is that I just don’t desire the old problematic items so much. Except a few.

I don;t need carb cycling so I don’t do that. I just go off a lot due to various reasons and I don’t see any problem with it, never did. Well, I wish to go off rarely and usually subtly now, it suits me best now. And I find value in not going off for several weeks, my keto started like that, I was on a mission to get fat adaptation… Now I am curious about longer term carnivore(-ish). But as my body handles off days quite fine (as long as they aren’t too wild and only 1-2 at a time) I don’t feel the need to behave as well as most ketoers. I just let things go naturally apart my training, I need a little push to get better. So I typically try a little. Not too hard, that never ended well.

IDK if it helped any but it may be interesting to see how people approach and see things :slight_smile:

I needed my training to lower amounts slowly but my experiences are the same. I couldn’t even quit dairy for more than a few days. But limiting it? Cutting out cheese for longer while keeping others? That worked. I am pleased where I arrived.

I make both quite often but they are very inferior eggless things, lucky me :smiley: (It’s not enough under certain circumstances - like hunger and lack of proper food, bad combo - but those aren’t hard to avoid at this point.)


(Luke) #18

Thanks for the info. I hope you are travelling well. I think for me if I’m in ketosis for 90% of the year , all will be good. I don’t really need to be in ketosis for health , but I like the way I feel so I’ll keep going along. The more I learn about keto the more personalised it is from person to person. Some people put carbs in all the time for work outs but still remain in ketosis for most of the week. Good luck to you.


(Luke) #19

Wow that is an amazing effort considering food was like a drug to you , I’m guessing more so at the start, rather than now. You don’t allow yourself cheese?


#20

I am similar then. It’s very different for people who feel bad without keto or who stray away and have a hard time to come back…
I always felt pretty healthy on high-carb but keto is better. And I have no problem with occasional single off days but I should come back - and I can’t not to anyway so all is well.
It’s good to figure out what works in our individual case :slight_smile: