Cephalic Response Question

#1

A couple of things I read on the forum today got me thinking about the effects of the cephalic response in a low carb/ketogenic diet framework. I know it’s a concern for me when fasting for autophagy - I avoid all flavored things to be on the safe side - to be sure nothing interferes with autophagy.

But are there other negative effects that a cephalic response can cause (by sweeteners, for example) when otherwise eating ketogenically?

Pretty please keep your explanations as simple as possible, as these threads can quickly go over my head when the science starts flowing. :wink:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

The cephalic response is all in your head—κεφαλός being the Greek for head. It refers to the spike of insulin we get whenever we think about eating, and is part of the body’s preparation for meals. Not much we can do about it, seems to me. If our mouth is watering, we’re probably also secreting insulin . . . :cut_of_meat:

(Joey) #3

@NinMD To extend @PaulL’s point, I believe the cephalic response can be triggered by any one of the senses - in addition to taste, we can add sight, smell, touch, and even sound (sizzlin’ bacon!) … In short, there’s really nothing wildly effective that we can do about it.

Learning to control one’s thoughts a bit more effectively (e.g., meditation and/or self-distraction) is perhaps one line of defense. But I wouldn’t really worry about it much - since doing so would make it more of a focus than it rightfully deserves.

(Bunny) #4

Other than the likely benefits of autophagy and if burning body fat is at all a goal then the short answer is: pump some iron (barbells), work the glutes etc. and watch the weight come flying off eventually with time (you have to be patient) no rocket science involved!

When it comes to skeletal muscle verses adipose tissue, muscle tissue always wins when you are in a rested state, you need just enough muscle tissue to do it! More adipose fat than muscle, adipose tissue wins? In other words you have to outpace the adipose fat with skeletal muscle!

It is like walking in your sleep, the more muscle you have, your literally burning ACTUAL body fat just laying their!

The advantage to more muscle tissue is any left over glucose/sugar not stored as glycogen gets oxidized and burned up immediately before it gets stored as a lipid droplet or adipose fat!

Worrying about insulin and cephalic responses is for the lazy and sendentary folks and that includes fasting!

That’s how those keto docs and folks are making money off you and laughing all the way to the bank!

#5

Brain conditions conducive to the meditative state occur with LCHF/keto over time, due to all the great brain nourishment via fat and the increased BDNF (as well as the extra insta-ketones from coconut oil MCTs for those who incorporate that).

I’d wager that over time our cephalic response changes and even decreases due to this brain nourishment that reduces stress on the hind brain - from, say, a hyper-response to a modest or comparatively hypo one.

As far as my n=1, after 2 years LCHF/keto I’ve noticed that while I do have a healthy “GUSTO” response to aromas and sights when near my planned eating time, my reactivity is much lower or even nil when smelling or seeing food or touching groceries - in a context of having little to no food cravings. It’s situational, and a certainly a kind of mental freedom, as there seems to be a bigger margin of choice in the matter.

Through my practical experiences in rigorous silent meditation and observation of sensations pre-keto, I had experienced my general reactivity to all types of cravings & aversion greatly reduce and my non-reactivity and choiceful presence expand. LCHF/keto has only helped this flourish.

This would indicate hormonal healing and neurochemical change. It makes sense, in contrast to how the standard industrial culture brain is a grain brain driven by dopamine addiction pathways and highly reactive. Dr. Robert Lustig writes about this stuff in his book The Hacking Of The American Mind. I don’t recall if he goes into Cephalic Response though…

(Trish) #6

This really sucks for me then as the bakery where I work does all day breakfast and even though the pastries baking does nothing for me, the constant smell of bacon just kills me some days.

(Retta Stephenson) #7

Hi @Shallimar

My sister once worked at a Der Veinerschnitzel hot dog stand. She was allowed to eat all the hot dogs she wanted. Well, that only lasted a few days, and she got so sick of them she never wanted to see another hot dog . Too much of a good thing killed the desire.

My friend once worked at Shakey’s Pizza Parlor. The were allowed to munch on all the pizza they wanted. Didn’t take long before he was sick of pizza. He had a friend who worked at a fried chicken joint, who had the same thing happen… he was sick of fried chicken. So for lunch, they frequently swapped chicken for pizza!

When I first went Low Carb, then Keto, I was gung ho on bacon. Lots n LOTS of bacon. Didn’t take too many months to get that out of my system. Now it’s nice on occasion. When I have it, I really enjoy it. Just not all the time.

All true stories.

Maybe if you gave into the Bacon every day, you would soon find it’s allure greatly diminished! What do they call that… aversion therapy?? :laughing: :bacon::bacon::hotdog::hotdog::poultry_leg::poultry_leg::pizza::pizza::bacon::bacon:

PS: aplogies to @NinMD for getting side tracked…:innocent:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #8

:rofl::rofl::joy::grin: That hasn’t worked for me but hell, I ain’t trying to quit! :bacon::bacon::bacon::bacon::cowboy_hat_face:

(Jane) #9

I’ve mentioned often that the smell of food is a trigger for me when fasting. I love to browse the food porn thread while fasting to plan all the delicious foods I will cook when I break my fast. Visual doesn’t have the save effect on me.

But I have noticed that it doesn’t matter if I grocery shop while hungry or not - no impulse buying after going keto.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #10

the longer I am strict Keto the lower my response. I’ve even cooked steaks for my family while fasted. I’m still working on the “lunch is a break from work” response at my desk. that one is stronger than the smell response. I find that a bit weird.

(Trish) #11

I also cook for my family while I fast. I actually like telling non-ketoers that I cooked x y and z on day 4 of a 6-day fast or such as it really freaks them out and they just seem to get that look of having a tilt sign in their eyes. Lmao. The things that amuse me. :crazy_face:

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #12

I’ve noticed this too. I used to always stop at the grocery store and could always find something to buy. Now I think of stopping and I think “meh, I don’t need anything!” Another NSV :sunglasses:

#13

Same here. I am not a quitter! :joy:

#14

Thanks so much to everyone for the responses! One of Paul’s comments in another thread actually inspired my question. He mentioned a possible inverse BG effect when insulin goes up due to cephalic response (specifically taste in this case). I bought a Keto Mojo recently to see what effect different foods and sweeteners had on me. A few of them actually lowered my BG modestly after eating them and it hadn’t occurred to me that this could be due to insulin response (until I saw @PaulL 's post) .

I am consistently losing weight, feel great, and these foods are not causing cravings. I don’t feel ready to give them up yet as they are helping me be compliant on keto. I’m sure over time I will want to eat cleaner options, but Rome wasn’t built in a day.

I wanted to be sure I was informed of the possible negative impacts while I progress on my keto journey.

Thank you also to @atomicspacebunny and @SlowBurnMary for the reminders to not neglect exercise and emotional/spiritual well being. I have been feeling like I might be ready to start hitting the gym again soon, so this is timely.

(mike lisanke) #15

I searched for ‘cephalic’ to find this conversation And <3 the answers to its motivating question from @NinMD. This said, and unlike the ‘motivational author’ who wants us to power through our mind’s creation of a physiological response with exercise :smile: I’d like to ask this same group – Have you noticed you’re sometimes kicked out of ketosis just for thinking about food? Did you notice it seems to take longer than it should to get back into strong ketosis after a feast ends it? (doing multi-day fasting with a feast day). Did any of you consider this to be a cephalic effect, your brain thinking about eating and increasing your insulin regardless of available food? Ditto this same question, with foods that aren’t suppose to increase insulin (e.g. pork rinds). I.E. if your brain says yum, do you make insulin, making you hungry, for non-carbohydrate foods too?

Thanks for any information and/or your thoughts/opinions, Mike