Hi everyone. I’ve been keto since January of this year and I managed to convert my mother who is very overweight and suffering from hypertension in February. She has lost 10 pounds so far but initially suffered from keto flu.
However, now my brother who has been listening to some vegan podcasts, and is convinced that humans are omnivores and that even animal products with humanely raised certification still cause animals to suffer is telling her that if she wants to be healthy she should become a vegan, which means a lot of grain consumption.
Does anyone know of any papaers or studies or even podcasts that discuss scientifically why humans can thrive as carnivores?
I would hate for my mom to quit while it’s still too early for her to see more substantial benefits.
Thanks
Carnivore vs omnivore
I’m sure others will provide science but you should obviously check out the Show Me the Science sub-forum.
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/c/science/resources
The 2KetoDudes podcasts are some of the very best, layperson-friendly, but science-based entry points to why keto is scientifically unassailable and why veganism doesn’t make as much sense from that POV.
You will not be able to argue that eating meat doesn’t cause the death of animals but you can prefer humane/organic reared products.
The other big thing to realize is that the debate is NOT Carnivore (only meat eater, like cats) vs. Omnivore (meat and plant matter eater) but Omnivore vs. Herbivore (plant matter only). It is a typically disingenuous Vegan propagandist attempt at disparagement to suggest that anyone who eats any animal product is a Carnivore and not an omnivore. The vast majority of ketonauts are Omnivores (a few who do the Zero Carb option are Carnivores) and most eat a lot of lovely green and other colors of vegetables.
When you ask, Omnivore vs. Herbivore it sounds different, doesn’t it?
Who’s the sheep now? 
PS This is a well balanced post from a prior vegan that might be of interest from an individual experience perspective. There are others around the boards to search for.
Keto vs. vegan for the top 3 diseases. Cancer, diabetes, and heart.
Veganism vs. Ketosis and meat eating. Drs. Greger and McDougall.
You can keto in a vegan or vegetarian way. Meat is not necessary (although it makes it easier and tastier)
Glucose and protein “burns like” sugar?? Is he saying reduce protein? He also supports some hours a day in ketosis and some hours juicing. He supports carb cycling. And calories type matter. Bit confused.
K
Just because someone is a Doctor, it doesn’t mean they have a competent understanding of both Lipolysis and Lipogenesis. Let alone Biochemistry and Human Evolution. That’s one of the problems with calling Lipolysis “Keto”, it often prevents a wider understanding of the actual processes. Doctors are no exception.
I hear ya, Karen. Some of that is a little confusing. I kinda think he’s going back and forth between low carb and low fat seemingly not committing to either one. I appreciate that he’s preaching to avoid the swamp in between (HFHC). I’m also not sure that some level of carb cycling might really be a good thing for healthy people using the keto WOE to remain healthy. (But that’s another post.) 
I’m not personally interested in being vegetarian or vegan. Others may have different opinions, and that’s fine. I find keto amazingly easy because I get to eat fantastic ribeyes, bacon, pork steaks, eggs, butter, and some fish and foul for good measure. I do eat my fair share of non-starchy vegetables and a few berries here and there. I see newbie posts here to the effect of “keto doesn’t work for me because I’m a vegetarian,” and it makes me sad. I imagine it would be quite difficult (although not impossible I know) to be a keto vegetarian. It’s just so easy to be a keto omnivore. Easy and delicious. YMMV.
Thank you so much, this was very helpful. What you say makes sense that most people on keto are not carnivores.
I think he (Dr. Daren Schmidth) is referring to gluconeogenesis when he is talking about protein (more than 4 ounces per meal). I can see how it is confusing also when he (Dr. Daren Schmidth) talks about juicing with fruits.
You can cycle yourself in and out of Ketosis (would think it also depends on how long you have been in Ketosis) and switch to burning sugar rather than Ketones (something I do also).
Dr. Jockers & Dr Berg give a good explanation on how this works and how this is done, in these videos, which is mostly for people with Thyroid issues\conditions when doing Keto.
How to Cycle in and Out of Ketosis
You could give her a copy of The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith . I was vegan for 7 years, vegetarian for 10, and this book was very helpful to me.
I went from vegan to keto three years back, had been vegan for many many years before that…