Carnivore not a Ketogenic diet?

[buxomlass]

I have about 516 videos in my watch later too… Sigh.

Oh, Shinita, are you me??

[Shinita]

I think Dr. Gabrielle Lyon’s advice to cycle in and out of ketosis (though she didn’t really go much into detail) was more aimed at women

I as a woman can say the same as Alec, I don’t get WHY I would burden my body with the carbs it very obviously doesn’t want… (I go off a lot but not because of but despite of my body’s desires… And I tend to feel a tad worse off. It’s tiny, I don’t regret it if I enjoy my food but it’s noticeable worse.)

Aha, she just explained that she doesn’t understand the ketogenic diet

I really don’t want someone who doesn’t understand keto telling me not to do keto just because I am female and she thinks so…

70% fat, 20% protein and 10% carbs ratio

I never ever understood this. 70/25/5 is wrong too as all fixed ratios are if considered the One True Way… But 10% carbs? My ketosis carb limit is pretty generous but even that doesn’t allow such a huge percentage! But it doesn’t matter, I tried 8% and 1% and the latter is LOADS better

I did 70% today. Yep, it’s way too high for me, I barely had my minimum protein and already borderline overate,. I won’t lose fat today for sure. It’s so, so obvious we can’t all have the same percentages without problems. And ketosis is so simple (usually, at least, maybe some people has it harder and more difficult), we just need to eat little enough carbs! Even fasting is ketogenic, inevitably…

Not entirely sure how she gets low fat on a carnivore diet… is she trimming the fat off all her meat?

Oh that part is easy, no need to trimming, one just eats lean stuff. The problem is getting right macros. But it’s doable for some people. Even I had a great low-fat keto day once Well a not sustainable one but my calories were okay for that day…
Hmmm maybe I should say here that low-fat is about grams for me, not percentages…
If one has a small energy need and they want to lose fat anyway, they may be able to pull off low-fat as low-cal isn’t a big problem. Of course, it can’t be too low as that’s starvation. But high enough protein, some carbs and a little fat, like 80g (it’s my limit for low-fat, totally individually decided but no one ever told me what low-fat means)… That may work for a while.
Low-fat in percentages… It can’t go too low as protein has limits, in various ways. Not great for fuel and there is too much protein. We need more than a tiny fat. IDK what low-fat in percentage means but a bit below 50% is realistic. For people who isn’t in love with fat like me, at least

Her main message is: eat more protein!

IF you eat little. I aim to eat less protein myself…
It’s just like fat on keto. Others may need to raise it, I had to lower it on low-carb and sadly couldn’t lower it on keto so I stayed fat.
We should eat the right amount, not “less” or “more” as that’s not informative. It’s fine for the average person or for someone specific where we know data. But some people eat way too much protein and/or fat and they should lower it.
Am I too nitpicker now? But such wording bothers me as it’s a horrible advice to me, for example…

but as to him stating everyone should do the same, that’s rather less sensible

You are right. Such statements are basically always wrong. We humans are so very different, there are some absolute truths but very few and usually vague…

Just don’t get stuck in the comment section to the video like I did, reading all the varied responses …

I do that a lot with videos making me think or react… I usually should do something more productive…

there’s no point in cutting the carbs if you’re still going to eat too much of them to get into ketosis.

This is very very wrong in the case of many of us. Many people enjoy mere low-carb and I can relate. It was the perfect woe for me at a time, the only one where I managed to lose fat on too… (It would have happened on keto if I managed to do it, though ;))
Low-carb gave me lots of benefits compared to high-carb. Keto gave me fat adaptation but otherwise nothing, just restrictions. It still was an important part of my journey. Both low-carb and keto were just necessary steps towards carnivore.
If someone with diabetes only can do low-carb (like 150g carbs a day, with special rules like almost no added sugar), it’s still better than keeping eating donuts by a dozen. Probably most of them would benefit from an even lower-carb (maybe keto, maybe not) but if it’s impossible for them for some reason, at least go lower, at least it sounds sensible to me.

She seemed to think a ketogenic diet must be high in fat and low in protein

But why? I never even saw this idea before! Many people think keto is high-fat and moderate protein while it isn’t, it’s only low enough carbs… If one has no idea about keto, lacks infos they can get easily, why they talk about it?

(And sorry, still didn’t watch but it’s long and I forgot it’s that topic, I just came to read comments.)

[PaulL]

She seemed to think a ketogenic diet must be high in fat and low in protein, so perhaps she wasn’t really thinking broadly enough about it, a

Ah! That sounds, then, as though she’s thinking of the ketogenic diet for epilepsy, which was, indeed, high in fat and low in protein. Nowadays, it’s been recognised that a ketogenic diet with a more adequate percentage of protein can still be effective for epilepsy.

[FrankoBear]

I remember this podcast when it was first published and found it very interesting, especially the claim by Dr.Lyon that the carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet. And she is correct.

I think the fat content in the carnivore way of eating is a key factor in ketosis. If people eat high protein low fat, it is easy to drop out of ketosis on a carnivore diet. It can be because of glycine and other insulin stimulating amino acids from protein metabolism and an overload of dietary protein in the absence of an adequate dietary fuel, such as fat. There are also studies, I think, that show some carnivore diets result in cortisol release, which increases blood glucose and the physiological responses that follow. The vegetarians and vegans conclude that carnivore diets are stressful from that cortisol response.

A higher fat carnivore approach will be more ketogenic.

The ketogenic diet relies on moderate, aka adequate, protein. I think that is a good way to approach carnivore WOE as well to maintain and gain the benefits of nutritional ketosis. Also, there are anecdotal reports of lower dietary fat lean meat eating ways of eating that mess people up with weight loss and hunger control.

A lean protein low fat, very low carbohydrate diet can result in readings of zero blood ketones. The biological bell curve strikes again.

[Fangs]

that is the biggie in chat on it. ‘active ketosis’ or just eating a ketogenic menu. They aren’t the same at all so when one chats ‘is it ketogenic’ or ‘not’, are we talking and referencing ‘in active ketosis’ or ‘not’ and if that is the basis they confuse the heck out of everyone thoughts and all are great but if one can’t get the ‘real point’ across on what they are blabbing about then…?? ugh…I see the ‘tree in that forest’ when they ‘group bundle up their chat info and ideas’ as they hope to get them across but confuse the heck out of most laymen out there. I do like Alec, I thru most of the info out there now.