Carnivore diet and varicose veins

[Adrian12150]

Hi guys nice to meet you all I’m Adrian I’m 26 Male.

I started carnivore diet 11 days ago and I noticed amazing body fat reduction. I’m currently on 40 day challenge and I understand why people love the diet I feel great my depression has been cured and overall I feel great except my legs are getting worse.

So my mum has varicose veins and has had operation many times. I never had any problems with veins until now ever since starting carnivore. First it started with more veins coming up to surface but then I thought its probably because I been losing body fat. But now 11 days in my legs are heavy and they actually hurt I never experienced this before. Reading online people say to avoid fatty food and salt and obviously carnivore is all about that. Before I use to eat very low volume of fatty food and I always has vegetables and never had this problem.

What do you guys recommend?

Thanks

[Pjam]

Hi Adrian. Welcome to the Guild

Have you lost any weight? I just wonder if your leaner you notice the veins more?

[coopdawg]

Impossible to even guess. Need:

A wee bit of history on health, eating habits, weight, medications, how much do you exercise? etc.
You know the drill…

You’re 26 and male and started carni just over a week ago.
What are you eating and how much?

I really doubt that you are getting varicose veins at this early age and for this reason.
Maybe it is just adjusting?

Need more info to even guess.

Get out and walk, tense your leg muscles, would be my advice.
Apologies if you already do this…it is just that you are so vauge…

[Adrian12150]

Hi there, sorry about that let me update you.

So 2021 I hit my lowest and I was 100kg and i’m 176cm tall. Within 6 months I lost 30kg and then even since I was on 80kh mark. I started with diet first 2 months 1500 calories and then added excerise at home and gym everyday.

Skip 2023 March I went on holiday I was about 82kg but 26% body fat. So even though I was keeping in weight I had alot of fat. April I decided to do 1200 calorie diet and I was losing weight but fat was dropping slowly. June 26% I was 67kg and at 20% body fat.

Now 11 days tomorrow in with carnivore I’m 15% body fat. I’m eating above 1600 calories but I’m still losing weight and fat. I would prefer to lose fat only and increase weight.

My goal is 12% body fat and increase weight to minium 70kg to max 80kg. Everyone has been telling me I look sick and not healthy.

Past two years fat was like 20 -40g daily at max in my diet. I’m worried its to much for my vein reason why the pain. I’m curious after 40 days if I still have the pain or it gets worse when I return to previous diet.

I’m going on holiday in auguest so wanted perfect summer body reason why I tried carnivore.

I don’t take any medication and I do 5 days at the gym with 5km runs 3x per week and I hit 10knsteps daily

[coopdawg]

You are similar height to me, so I can empathise.
I was also a wee bit above 100kgs at one point, but at my lowest (under keto regimen) I was 68 kilos.

I now maintain around 73 - 74 kilos.

It’s OK, and I am happy with it. (So are the people who know me IRL. I was aiming BMI…but I think that is BS now.)

Just quit the carbs as much as possible would be my advice, keep hydrated, moderate exercise.

The worm will turn.

[scaperdude]

Reading online people say to avoid fatty food and salt and obviously carnivore is all about that.

Actually, keto or carnivore is not all about eating fat. It is about replacing most or all calories from carbs with proteins and fats. There are definitely ways to do this without eating tons of fat. I see nothing in your history about BP. It is important to know your BP. Although your are young, you should probably get your blood work done. Find out your hematocrit levels. If your blood is too thick, you should probably consider donating blood. I have vericose veins in my right calf, and they can ache, and cause me some pain. In addition to donating blood I have done a number of things to lower my BP. However, I have found that I can wear a calf sleeve, and that seems to help prevent the blood from collecting there and causing pain. This year I haven’t noticed much if any pain at all, and haven’t had to wear my sleeve, so maybe I am doing something right. About 2 years ago I began taking vitamin K2 on a daily basis. I have almost eliminated all sources of “vegetable” oils from my diet, and cut way back on sugar. I have also started testing myself for oxLDL levels.

If you believe the old hype that saturated fat is the boogey man, then you are on the wrong diet. I do not. Saturated fat is the form our body chooses to store fat because it is the most stable, and is a good source of energy. There has never been a good RCT linking saturated fat to heart disease, because it is not the cause.

[SomeGuy]

@Adrian12150 Welcome to the forum!

I haven’t read anything you’ve posted to suggest you’re on the wrong path given your goals, age/health, except for the discomfort you describe… This is of some concern because there’s nothing about cutting out carbs that’s supposed to hurt! (On the contrary.)

As noted above, varicose veins after a few weeks (and at your age) makes little sense. I have bulging veins all over my arms since losing body fat and gaining musculature … but it took years on keto before it became obvious.

So now I’m a phlebotomist’s dream (and a mosquito’s too). But there is ZERO discomfort or pain of any sort. These are not varicose veins… I’m simply lean, muscular, and very vascular. That seems different than what you’re describing.

My initial guess is that whatever discomfort you’re experiencing is highly unlikely to be caused by restricting carbs. Could be lots of exercise-related things.

But since your Mom has genuine varicose veins, let me ask… do yours really look like hers? Are they thinly distributed throughout the surface of your limbs just under the skin, or are they larger veins - like you’d take a blood test with - that track the major vein runs in a healthy arm of a “pumped” up athlete looking limb?

Wishing you some near-term relief from this issue!

[Shortstuff]

Suspect that heavy leg feeling may be electrolyte / adaptation related more than anything else, but still, 1600 cals is crazy low so could also be a factor.

[PaulL]

Now 11 days tomorrow in with carnivore I’m 15% body fat. I’m eating above 1600 calories but I’m still losing weight and fat. I would prefer to lose fat only and increase weight.

Welcome to the forums, and congratulations on your progress!

1. Don’t deliberately restrict your calories, whether you are keto or carnivore. The body has mechanisms to make it hang on to its fat reserve under famine conditions. Eat enough to satisfy your hunger.

2. While people on a ketogenic diet often experience benefits from fasting, the advice from experienced carnivores is not to fast, and to eat three meals a day. Practically every difficulty a newcomer to carnivore experiences can be resolved, they say, by eating more meat.

3. You may or may not need to increase your salt intake. Elevated insulin, the result of eating too much carbohydrate, makes the kidneys hoard salt. When it drops, a lot of that salt gets dumped. If you eat the right amount of salt, it helps your body keep all the other electrolytes well-regulated. Constipation and headaches can be signs of low sodium; diarrhoea a sign of too much. Stay in between and drink to thirst. That will keep your blood volume up and help your athletic performance. It will also help your blood pressure, and therefore your veins.

4. When people embark on a carnivore diet, there is an adjustment period that lasts several months. The effects are more noticeable when switching from a standard American diet (SAD), but are still there even when people move from keto to carnivore. It is possible that what you are noticing in your legs is the process known as fat-adaptation, which involves your skeletal muscles re-learning how to efficiently metabolise fatty acids again after years of metabolising glucose. As your muscle mitochondria heal, and your muscle cells reactivate certain metabolic pathways, you will return to your previous level of performance. In the meantime, however, don’t overstress your body with too much exercise.

5. The veins, as you remark, are more noticeable simply because they are no longer covered with fat. To some extent, varicose veins are hereditary, but they can be worsened by poor diet. I inherited my father’s poor leg circulation, but I have noticed that my veins look a lot better after five years on keto than they used to. I am over twice your age. At your age, you have a few decades before you should have to worry about your veins, heredity or not.

Give yourself plenty of time before deciding whether or not a carnivore diet is for you. It will probably take at least three months for your body to sort itself out. Unless you have health problems that only a plant-free diet can help, there is no reason why you couldn’t switch to a low-carb/keto diet, if you don’t enjoy eating only animal foods. But it sounds as though you are having good results so far, so good luck, and please let us know how you’re getting on.

[Naghite]

Past two years fat was like 20 -40g daily at max in my diet. I’m worried its to much for my vein reason why the pain.

How do you eat 1600 calories on a carnivore diet with low fat? Can you list a days meals? While not all agree on the best ratio, nobody should suggest more than 3 G protein per kg bodyweight. The rest should be fat with very little carbs. Something seems to not add up.

[Adrian12150]

I decided to lower my challenge from 40 days to 35 at least to reintroduce carbs slowly over a week before my holiday. I don’t want to have problems while I enjoy myself out there.

But yes I agree now experiencing zero carb diet I can see how carbs are effecting our bodies. But life is to short so definitely want to enjoy myself while I keep at control. Also I’m 64kg right now I bet I get to 60kg or lower by the end of it so I definitely need to put back on weight the good one. My main goal was to lose body fat 12 -15% will be okay with me

Thanks

[Adrian12150]

Hi there, thanks for the reply.

So I don’t think I’m going over the board with the fat but I’m used to lower fat in the past like 30 -40 grams daily. So me being on carnivore now is to much to handle when eating similar experiences to eating to much sugar at once.

I never had problems with veins or giving blood they were always able to find veins and needle them and usually it only took under 10 mins to donate 250ml. So I don’t think my blood is thick. I will experiment and try aspirn see if the pain will stop in venins.

Today the pain is much better but I decided not to push myself so hard and decided to skip on 5km run. Also I took magnesium tablets and multi vitamins and electrolytes.

Here is example of my diet tracking

[Adrian12150]

Hi there, thank you

I had blood tests before and I do donate blood I never had any problems with it. I have ordered k2 and omega 3 which I will take daily to help and support the veins and keep them healthy.

It’s really weird I only started to get the pain now also my hips have weird pain aswell. And when I excerise I get weird pain in upper chest below shoulder on ghe front.

My veins are nothing compared to my mums her veins are constantly going and she is constantly having injections and different procedures to keep the diease in place. Reason why I’m worried now as its just genetics.

This is my left leg it’s actually clean and you can’t see it well but I think it’s purple spider webs

And this is my right leg it’s worse more veins not just on the back and it looks worse in person can’t capture it fully

Thanks

[SomeGuy]

@Adrian12150 Thanks for sharing the pics. It’s not clearly obvious from these images of any serious varicose vein issues, but the pain is a compelling issue so it’s worth paying close attention to what’s going on.

I don’t know to what extent varicose veins might run in the family and/or whether at your young age this would even be a relevant concern yet. It’s possible you are focusing on an issue under a “false” assumption that this is your problem - when it might be something entirely different.

Again, I never make light of pain and encourage you to follow up with prudent medical attention.

However, it would seem highly unlikely that going carnivore for a couple of weeks could possible trigger the symptoms you’re experiencing.

If so, it’d be a first that I’ve heard for such a reaction.

[Adrian12150]

Hi Paul! Thank you for the warm welcoming and very detailed reply

The calories restriction is something I have picked up in the last two years when I started to count calories. I think the range of 1500 - 2000 calories is enough for me as I can’t eat no more. I eat 3 meals now went down from 5 meals. But my habit with eating is as follow 8am to 2pm windows and then I don’t eat. On Fridays I stop at 12pm and fast for 24 hours to clean up my body. This has proven to be very effective.

When I started carnivore I literally gave up carbs on the spot and I think the worst was day 2 to 4 as it felt I was on drugs, dizzy and had horrible headaches. But every since I was fine. I have been using salt and water and electrolytes now.

I went from normal stall to diarrhea then constipation and now its 50 /50 I would say.

I think I over do myself sometimes and work extra hard that is why I said I take a break today from 5km run.

Regarding the veins I think so too the fat was covering up the veins and now they are more visible. Here is my diet journey from April I had alot of body fat for only being 77kg

I think I would like to transition into more keto diet and have better quality carbs and keep them low in long run and I will just listen to my body.

Thank you

[Adrian12150]

Hi thanks for the super reply maybe I’m just worrying to much or the venins are more visible as my body fat is lower but you are right the pain is not to be ignored.

My mum has encouraged me to visit her doctor and apparently they can scan the veins and know if they are weak and if there is poor circulation.

But first I will finish carnivore diet challenge and see how I feel and look and then I will reintroduce carbs slowly. But I just noticed there are veins popping up all over my body so it could be the fat that was hiding them.

Thanks

[SomeGuy]

But I just noticed there are veins popping up all over my body so it could be the fat that was hiding them.

To lose serious amounts of fat in a matter of 2-3 weeks sounds unlikely. It is far more likely to lose water weight upon cutting out carbs.

Ensure you continue to maintain good hydration and electrolytes when undergoing such changes. Plenty of excellent info on such topics throughout the forum.

[scaperdude]

“I never had problems with veins or giving blood they were always able to find veins and needle them and usually it only took under 10 mins to donate 250ml. So I don’t think my blood is thick. I will experiment and try aspirn see if the pain will stop in venins.”

Just FYI eating a lot of red meat tends to make my iron and hematocrit run high. If it goes too high, Red Cross will not accept a blood donation. Also I moved to the high desert from sea level, and sometimes, that can cause the body to thicken its blood to compensate for thinner air. If you go to donate, they will let you know. Also JFYI if you get your blood triglycerides measured, they will probably be on the normal to low side because with carbs and sugar low, the body simply clears the fat out. Sometimes, it takes a few weeks to become more fat adapted, but I really doubt the dietary fat is affecting your veins.