% Carbs or Total Carbs?

food

#82

being fat is never the only sign of true metabolic bad health so there are those out there with that term deemed ‘skinny fat’ with tons of health issues thru what they do eat daily so? Just a thought on it all.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #83

And here’s why:


(Jane) #84

Not surprising. They have access to community freezers with their traditional meats but also access to bliss-producing, addictive carbs… so which do they choose? Yep. Bingo.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #85


22%20AM

The annual re-supply vessel brought in a supply of liquor and part of this was traded for carvings and young women.


#86

But meat is more bliss-producing, isn’t it…? Or is it just me? (Surely not but I already noticed many people are different from me regarding these things.) Nothing tastes as good as good meat (except maybe the best fruits)! Definitely not store-bought overflavored stuff so many people seem to like. Some of them are nice but meat is still better.
(But I do like my processed meat items. My body is fine with them so I use them here and there.)


(Robin) #87

Same.


(Jane) #88

It was a reference to the processed food industry who has extensive food labs and their goal is to produce addictive foods that light up the pleasure centers of the brain - they call it the “bliss point”. You are lucky if you never got roped into enjoying an entire bag of potato chips!


#89

I’m not sure that detracts from the findings. And while the research in humans is a moot point, animal studies show very similar findings. For example:

A high-fat, ketogenic diet causes hepatic insulin resistance in mice, despite increasing energy expenditure and preventing weight gain | American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism

In mice subjects, the: ‘KD causes a decrease in insulin-stimulated whole body glucose disposal… This lower level of insulin-stimulated whole body glucose disposal was due to decreased heart muscle glucose uptake, as well as decreased brown adipose tissue (BAT) glucose uptake; there was no difference in muscle [gastrocnemius and quadriceps] or white adipose tissue glucose uptake.’

Regardless of interpretation, that is the mechanics of what happens.


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #90

Rodent studies are problematic. Firstly, it is very difficult to get rats and mice into ketosis. Second, you really have to look at the diets, because most “ketogenic” rodent diets are very high in sugar. This may be necessary, given that the animals can’t access ketones very well, but in my opinion it limits what inferences we can draw from the studies.


#91

Of course, and I wouldn’t hang my hat on rodent studies. The point was the pathophysiology appeared similar.

As an aside, the KD feed for the mice in this study was 0.4% CHO.


(bulkbiker) #92

And mainly full of seed oils I believe… these “studies” really shouldn’t be published.


#93

It’s generally worth checking the facts before making judgements.

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(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #94

Just a thought…
This study is from 2010…

There are so many people doing the ’ KETO’ thing now.
Why no apparent interest in doing a well funded human study?

Too much push-back from the medical and pharma establishment who don’t want to lose their credibility and cash flow from pushing high carb low fat?


(bulkbiker) #95

Corn oil?

And as I’m not a mouse then…


#96

I don’t want to point out the obvious here as I’m sure you know the difference?

In addition, corn oil was the 3rd main ingredient. It meant the saturated fat content of the feed was almost x3 the PUFA. So, it’s fine to push back on any study presented here but would be goof to get some genuine rebuttal rather stuff that springs to mind.


#97

There are some compelling human studies, actually. The issue is duration; most of the decent studies last 6 months. A few have lasted longer but the results have been more questionable. That’s why most ‘mainstream’ authorities will only endorse the keto diet for the short term, i.e. ‘there is no evidence showing the safety or effectiveness being that point…’ Sean Baker is apparently crowd funding an RCT re carnivore, which would be amazing if it gets off the ground.


#98

no diff on corn or seed oils but one learns thru the marketing attempts there is and in the bitter end of it all, all processed ‘oils’ suck rocks BUT IF ONE does well on some oil they allow into their life and are functioning great then more power to those who can but thru truths on processing, plant matter effects and more if you find that other side of it all you on what ‘process thru those companies goes down’ and more are a massive issue to be addressed for the body.

Life never had processed oils of any kind in full truth :slight_smile:
but after that it is a personal call


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #99

Not to mention dextrose, which is a form of glucose.


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #100

The longest, most compelling study was the couple of hundred thousand years before agriculture came along…

I thought the people doing this stuff ( studies ) were scientists, and might have taken that into consideration.


#101

This is becoming fun on a Friday now…

Indeed, dextrose is a listed ingredient and appeared to form the majority of the carbohydrate content of the feed. Now the CHO content of the feed was 0.4%. To put that into perspective, if you transpose this ratio to an average adult male at 2,500 kcals daily intake that would equate to 10 kcals from dextrose, or 2.5g. I’m sure plenty of folks on this forum would love to get their CHO to these levels!