% Carbs or Total Carbs?

food
(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #21

While :" The KETO diet " is a big fad right now it is losing steam… Mainly because most people can’t wrap their head around a new life-long way of eating that `eliminates a plethora of health issues and results in (fat) weight loss. They don’t want to give up their ’ treats ', so they go looking for 'KETO ’ treats and other KETO recipes. So there is no shortage of experts and food processors riding that cash cow. They want to sort through good carbs and bad carbs. They want to have " cheat ’ meals and days. They want to do KETO until they lose a certain amount of weight, then they want to return to their old way of eating with the idea they can just eat less and move more.
Then just like the other ‘diets’ that make millions on return customers, the KETO’er decides KETO doesn’t work either and tries Jenny Craig again because they lost 10 pounds in 30 days…

Just another perspective from someone who doesn’t do KETO , but enjoys the health benefits of a ketogenic metabolism fueled by whole, mostly animal sourced foods, which happen to contain minimal carbohydrates.

P.S.
I have no idea what my macros are, or how many grams of carbohydrates I eat in a day.
I could make a ball-park guess but really don’t see the point. When I’m eating right, I feel right.

#22

Well said, Gregory. :+1: - And this is how I see it as well. I don’t disagree with those who do live by the numbers, and put so much effort into doing so. I actually applaud them for doing this so stringently. It is actually much harder to do and even harder to keep things at those set limits. … But for me, this would also take away the simplicity I find so appealing with this WOE. :+1:

#23

Yes, when someone feels insulted… Blame them. It’s hard finding a group as arrogant and condescending as ive found you all to be. You should get over yourselves and off your high horse. Just wow.

Does anyone who isn’t a snob know how to delete this account? I can’t figure it out.

Should I spam explicitives until my account is banned?

#24

That won’t be necessary, Brian. - It will be taken care of henceforth.

#25

Wow! I guess this forum wasn’t for him. :man_shrugging:

Move along folks. Nothing to see here.
Please continue with your condescending smuggery.

#26

I left the thread in place since these do sometimes create good conversations in the end, whether the person who started it request to be removed or not. … Which in this case, he did.

#27

Percentages don’t work, go by grams. If you have a carb heavy meal your next meal needs to be as low carb and as low fat as possible. You’re not going to be done with all those carbs by the next meal and eating high fat at that point will only backfire in your face. It also matters what your definition of “abnormally carb heavy” is.

Nor do I, “Eating to satiety” was one of the things that destroyed my metabolic rate.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #28

One of my favorite cliche’s:

An insult only works if you accept it.

(Doug) #29

Nonsense. Good grief, this was your first day, and you came in with a silly attitude.

#30

I think this was his real intent for posting here.
He just wanted us to know we’re all wrong for telling people to limit their carbs 20g/day.

I guess it’s time to close the forum. It was fun while it lasted.

#31

:rofl:

But that’s true it’s not a single ketosis carb limit for everyone. Not like I remember anyone ever saying it on this forum… 10% or, say, 50g clearly would be too much for many but may work for others… I still can’t understand the 10% that keeps popping up here and there… But the 50g is popular too (my country isn’t into keto but in the few keto blogs here it was usually 50g, sometimes 30). It may be a nice start for people but if ketosis is the goal, there is a high chance one won’t reach it so it makes perfect sense to go lower and 20g is a pretty good safe number, still not good for everyone but if one must choose some starting point, it sounds okay in general.

#32

We’ve actually had folks arguing about some members stating 150g a day was ok, and they stayed in Ketosis. So the number is pretty much limitless really. And this was after being Keto for some time, not necessarily just starting out, so there is a difference. … It’s why stating that ‘staying under 20g a day is just the recommended amount’ since this amount normally ensures that folks will get into Ketosis. (Not everyone of course, but most. Some are indeed fortunate to be able to raise that number, while others have to go even lower.) Just reinforces how we say everyone is so different. … My personal opinion is that I’m sure most folks would indeed feel better if they did drop their carb intakes down to 50g a day, especially if they were eating a ‘normal’ SAD diet. Ketosis or not, cutting carbs is always helpful

But if someone indeed wants to test and see just how high they can keep that number and still stay in Ketosis, it would just require testing on their own, while slowly raising the limits. But I personally have never found it hard to stay under 20g. So it’s just easy, and if on the rare occasion you maybe hit 25? so what, just go back under 20 the next day and enjoy life. :slight_smile:

(Doug) #33

:+1::smile: Definitely. :grin: It’s so silly. That comes from people who really are not paying attention to the rationale behind low-carb. Even if in the end they don’t like the theory, etc., they ought to at least find out what it really is.

It’s like the studies where the “low carbohydrate” group has 40% or 44% of their dietary calories being carbohydrates, versus 60% - 80% for higher-carb or ‘low-fat.’ Well good grief…

Or they only give the test subjects two weeks on what they deem “low carbohydrate,” while very probably people who have been eating a “standard” diet will not be very far along with fat-adaptation, etc.

#34

Agreed, when I’m doing 2 a day gym sessions like I’m doing now back when I still measured I could show ketones all day long at around 100g. Problem is (here) that most have a bias towards “weight” loss and being sedentary. Not everybody clearly, but there’s definitely a resistance to acknowledging that not everybody needs to do that cookie cutter version of keto. I think everybody should start there, but the pushback is ridiculous when people push back on that mindset. Keto dogma can be as bad as SAD dogma… sadly.

(bulkbiker) #35

Disagree slightly here… SAD dogma has 60 years of failure behind it… yet no-one can admit it’s simply crap for most humans much like CICO…
“new keto” has far less dogma and of course for many works so…

#36

About ALL the keto advice I ever heard was bad for me or someone else… There are very few facts and then there are all the individual things. We all need enough energy (no starvation), various micro- and macronutrients (but how much of them? it’s not that simple, it depends) and for ketosis, low enough carbs, whatever that means in the actual case. And that carb amount may or may not be too high to get benefits (maybe everyone get some, I liked my fat adaptation but it’s possible that going lower is what brings most of the really nice noticeable benefits). We may need to eat without hunger or beyond satiation, I do both sometimes because that’s the best way. I don’t know many statements or advice that good for everyone.

It’s still nice to have a bunch of pretty good, works-for-most advice as a starting point but I like to encourage people to find their own sweet spot. Inside or outside keto. As it’s not for everyone.

I am very fine with very strict rules without relaxing them ever if it suits someone. But we can’t expect others to do what we consider right - beyond the very few general ones but even there, the actual numbers may be unknown and even changing. Like our protein need. We can make an educated guess but not some small range, rather a big one.

I don’t care people love simplicity, we need to figure out certain stuff for ourselves, at least if the general advice doesn’t seem to work.

#37

True, bit doesn’t change anything.

I used to believe that, and it kept me fat, got my RMR checked and listened to it, and guess what? Started loosing weight again. CICO isn’t perfect, nothing is. But it does matter.

Really? Eat more fat being the answer to everything without any context? Eat more salt fixing everything? Calories don’t matter (again, the reason I couldn’t loose AND gained while following that) 20g being an absolute limit of carbs even though for anybody active it’s really not? Keto for many is as cookie cutter as people on SAD who think “eat less, move more” being the answer without any context behind it.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

I’m wondering where you see people saying that, because I haven’t encountered either of those ideas here.

(Jane) #39

I feel like you are exaggerating to make a point. I don’t see that much here. Yes, some people recommend upping fats, but only in the context of how the poster is eating and whether they can make it between meals w/o snacking.

Same with salt – usually recommended in context of someone having an issue that upping salt may fix.

And the 20g carbs is almost ALWAYS qualified with “start with that to guarantee ketosis” and you may be able to increase later.

As for calories – “most” don’t say they don’t matter – they recommend not counting calories in the beginning and to focus on the carb limit to become fat adapted. And some (like you) recommend eating MORE to keep your metabolism high - agan in context of what the poster is asking and how they are eating.

#40

Then we must be on different forums… I see that stuff more here than anywhere else.