Carb timing

Andrea69 · 2018-06-20 16:23:20 UTC

If you are having your daily carbs is there a certain time of the day that is better?

Alley · 2018-06-20 19:13:08 UTC

we are less insulin responsive earlier in the day, but really don’t think it matters. good whole food healthy carbs eat them any time

Quarry · 2018-06-20 20:33:57 UTC

I imagine it’s better to eat the bulk of our carbs when we’re eating plenty of fat so that our reaction to them might be buffered by the slower digestion of the fats, rather than having carbs in isolation. But that’s just “mom science,” so don’t take it as fact.

OldDoug · 2018-06-20 20:46:59 UTC

I’ve seen reports that we are more insulin sensitive in the morning, and less in the evening:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Circadian modulation of glucose and insulin responses to meals: relationship to cortisol rhythm.

E Van Cauter, ET Shapiro, H Tillil and KS Polonsky, The American journal of physiology, Apr 1992

To determine whether glucose and insulin responses to a mixed meal are influenced by time of day irrespective of duration of prior fast, eight normal subjects (4 males, 4 females) were studied on two separate occasions, involving ingestion of identical meals at either 6- or 12-h intervals. The 24-h profiles of plasma glucose, serum insulin, and plasma C-peptide were obtained at 20-min intervals. Plasma cortisol levels were measured on each sample to evaluate possible relationship between diurnal variations in metabolic responses and circadian rhythm of cortisol. Rates of secretion of insulin and cortisol were mathematically derived from peripheral concentrations by deconvolution using two-compartment models for clearance kinetics. Postmeal responses of glucose, insulin, and insulin secretion rate were evaluated by calculating maximum postmeal increment, total area under curve, area under curve for 2 h after meal ingestion, and total duration of response. Postmeal cortisol responses were quantified by increment in plasma level and amount secreted in postmeal pulse. For glucose responses, irrespective of duration of prior fast, all four parameters characterizing the response were significantly greater in the evening than in the morning, with total area under curve and 2-h area under curve being approximately twofold larger in the evening than in the morning. Time of day did not significantly influence maximum postmeal increment in insulin secretion rate or duration of insulin secretory response, but total and 2-h areas under curve were 25-50% greater in the evening than in the morning. Meal ingestion was followed by a significant pulse of cortisol secretion in 37 of 40 cases.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

Regardless of the time the carbs are eaten, I’d think it’s better to do them all at once, rather than spaced out over time, making for more periods of insulin secretion.

Alley · 2018-06-21 10:44:31 UTC

I based mine on Dr. Fung. and think it is based on the insulin spike we get at sun rise even without eating

Alley · 2018-06-21 10:46:21 UTC

but I will go back and find that info in case i was reading it wrong. but if you think our bodies are smart then carbs a night when we are shutting down should have a greater response.

RobC · 2018-06-21 10:54:35 UTC

Daily carbs are supposed to be incidental and under 20 grams. I do not think it matters when you have them as that is such a small amount from, presumably, from a whole food source.

I would assume if you were having much larger amounts of carbs at a particular time that it would be best to have them a few hours before some heavy exercise so that you quickly burn off the resulting glucose and get back into ketosis quickly (please let me emphasize “assume” - not a doctor).

OldDoug · 2018-06-22 02:11:47 UTC

Might be in reference to the “dawn phenomenon” where blood sugar rises in anticipation of daily activites, not an insulin spike, per se.

Are our bodies smart? Well, yes - in general, very smart, and the human organism is an incredibly tough one. Still, past a point our hormonal responses get diluted in effect, and our bodies doing what they think is the right thing to do can have bad consequences. I’m still a maniac, but for 45+ years I was a more constant and crazier maniac, and here I am…

KidKeto · 2018-06-22 02:38:29 UTC

hmm I do cyclical keto for lifting reasons with weekends loading up on pure glycogen carbs like maltodextrin and sweet potatoes and keeping fats at max 20 grams…ik ik it sounds crazy but doing that from friday to sunday and staying keto monday through friday at 10 grams of net carbs and 140 fats is really effective!!! This form of eating allowed my cholest too drop dramitcally from self testing I did on the sunday…Considering I ate nothing but bacon meat and eggs with plenty of veggies through out the week!

KevinB · 2018-06-22 02:44:24 UTC

Do you actually stay in ketosis with this eating schedule?

(If not, it’d be more accurate to say that you do cyclical LCHF.)

KidKeto · 2018-06-22 02:59:30 UTC

Yeah Kevin, from friday to sunday I do 200< net carb >250 protein <20 fat
along with a 16 hour fast till monday afternoon after fasted weight training.
I test positive on strips every monday through friday.

KidKeto · 2018-06-22 03:01:15 UTC

along with the fact I weigh 140 and now am at 10% bodyfat FYI , Height: 5.5 feet

RobC · 2018-06-22 03:07:19 UTC

It sounds like you might be so fat adapted that you can easily switch - I think that’s supposed to be a good thing.

I wonder what would happen though if you kept the same eating pattern but did no lifting for a week.

Whether it is true switching of fuel sources or whether your exercise is simply burning away all of your glycogen before the brain has a chance to get addicted to it again.

KevinB · 2018-06-22 03:24:38 UTC

That’s impressive. I’m guessing that the 16 hour fast (with fasted weight training) helps you to get back in ketosis after consuming carbs over the weekend.

KidKeto · 2018-06-22 03:27:40 UTC

yes sir kevin but note that I am not lifting a 10lb dumbell for a few min…infact I am grinding at the RDLS,stairmaster, and chest press for 2 hours running only on the carbs I ate over the weekend and some matcha green tea with a splash of almond milk (like 1 tbsp or 2)

KevinB · 2018-06-22 03:57:04 UTC

Oh, I believe it! I think it’d be hard to burn off enough of your glycogen reserves with just a 16 hour fast combined with light/minimal exercise.

Alley · 2018-06-22 09:24:15 UTC

Well, the answer lies in the circadian rhythm, which I’ve written about previously. Recall that insulin, not total calories is the main driver of obesity, although there is an overlap, to be sure. Different foods elicit different insulin responses, and therefore have different propensities to cause obesity. That is, 100 calories of cookies are more fattening than 100 calories of broccoli, despite what all the mindless calorie zombies tell you.

The same food will also elicit different insulin responses at different times of the day. Eating the same food at dinner (compared to breakfast) gives you almost 30% more insulin effect. In other words, food is more fattening when you eat it later at night. But the bad news for late eaters does not stop there. If you look at the circadian rhythm for hunger, you’ll find that hunger is lowest in the morning and greatest in the evening 8:00 pm or so.

Another study (Bo, S et al) found the same phenomenon. In this crossover study, they took 20 healthy people, gave them the same meal but either in the morning or evening. So both arms had exactly the same people, eating the exact same meal, but only differing by time of day. The evening meal stimulated significantly higher blood glucose and blood insulin response and insulin is the main driver of obesity. Even more interesting, the evening meal produced a much lower resting energy expenditure afterwards compared to the morning meal.

So, if you eat your largest meal in the evening, you suffer from 3 problems. You’ll be more likely to eat more (because you are more hungry – yikes), you’ll get more fattening effect for the food that you do eat (higher insulin – double yikes), and you’ll have lower energy expenditure (more calories will get turned to fat). TRIPLE YIKES!

OldDoug · 2018-06-23 18:07:44 UTC

Nice post, Alley. It’s a good point to think of things in terms of insulin, rather than calories, or at least to take them both into account.

I used to scoff at the idea that “eating late in the day” was worse for us, but yes - if we plot insulin levels over time, the ‘area under the curve’ will be greater late in the day. Some “bad magic” right there. I’ve always been a ‘evening person’ versus a morning person, too.