Can't lower insulin

(Mina Janssen) #89

Thanks what did you eat on carnivore if it was not that much meat?

(Mina Janssen) #90

Yes well I am tweaking my diet to see if that works. More calories is not working, so I am experimenting to that change things.Just trying to find ways. I am a woman and not tall.

(Mina Janssen) #91

Because nothing works so that is my new idea. If you have other ones love to hear. Calories also count, so I thought let’s try carnivore and then lower the calories.


I ate lots of eggs and some dairy. Of course meat is very very basic and needed on carnivore for nutrients and other reasons but I often had only half a pound, it helped enough with protein. I have half a pound meat days even nowadays, it’s just not the norm or average for me but the lowest I can get. But I almost never eat 2 pounds of meat let alone more. Around 1, a bit more nowadays and I am fine.
I still eat eggs and dairy, on lower-meat days more than on higher-meat days. I really need all these food groups at this point. But I get the bigger part of my protein intake from meat. On my really good days, the vast majority of it (meat satiates me way better than my other carnivore items). It’s still nice to have other options for variety.

I didn’t say anything about your calorie intake before as I can’t possibly know if 1300 is starvation for you. It’s very low but it’s fine for some people I suppose… Not many. Even short, not muscular, not very active women often needs more during a healthy fat-loss. But there are pretty big individual differences. If you are sure your energy need is not much more and it’s natural, not result of metabolism slow down, it may be fine but it’s really, really low and keto is about keeping the carbs low and eating to satiety (or whatever works for someone, not everyone has proper satiation signs and even if they have, eating to satiety may result in overeating. I can do it very easily if my food choices or timing isn’t right). We shouldn’t eat too much (I definitely don’t, some people may work in mysterious ways) but many people forcefully try to keep their energy intake low and that sounds bad.
I know too little about you to say much, just these general things.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #93

The standard advice old-timer carnivores give to people new to that way of eating is, no matter what the problem, eat more meat. They also recommend not trying to fast or limit calories. That might or might not work in your case. The best we can do is to look at the science, and then try to figure out what works best in our own case.

How often are you getting your insulin tested? Do you have to pay for the tests yourself? For some crazy reason, the American Diabetes Association strongly advises not testing insulin levels, so most doctors refuse to order the test, and many insurance companies baulk at paying for it.

Also, what does the doctor say about your elevated insulin? If you’ve gone strictly low- or no-carb, then your insulin should have dropped, no matter how instulin-resistant you are. Have you had your glucagon tested? Glucagon is produced in the α-cells of the pancreas, which are intermingled with the β-cells that produce insulin, and glucagon and insulin regulate each other, as well as many other bodily processes. I’m wondering if your elevated insulin might result from a problem with either glucagon production or glucagon-resistance. I know nothing about the latter except that it’s very rare, but Prof. Benjamin Bikman says it can cause serious problems. I also know that tumours in certain glands can mess up metabolism.

Another thing to consider is your ratio of insulin to glucagon. According to Prof. Bikman, it’s not so much the absolute values of the two hormones that are important, but rather the ratio. A high insulin/glucagon ratio keeps us in fat-storage mode, but a low ratio indicates that our metabolism is in fat-metabolising mode. So if your glucagon is as high as your insulin, then you might not have a metabolic problem. But in that case, I’d still wonder why the pancreas is still secreting so much of both of them.

(Mina Janssen) #94


I live in the netherlands doctors do not look at insulin resistance only diabetis. I have found a doctor he is a alternative doctor has his own practice gives more advice on suplements and food. I test 1 time in six months. I pay all self it is not cheap. I ask this alternative doctor wich is not a metabolic expert. He said that he has no idea why the metformin did do anything. So he does not know. He was perplex at the result. So I am stuck here because the normal doctor don’t treat insulin.
I did go carnivore six months before my insulin was 17. Maybe it is a variety or it went up. I never was this high.

I really don’t know about the glucagon I am afraid that I need a doctor with that wich I don’t have. I also send Facebook dr. Bikman an email. No answer. Was hoping maybe he will contact me. Don’t know if there is a way to ask him questions? And I was wondering myself is it an tumor that is causing this

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #95

Since insulin-resistance is a disease of excessive insulin, it is wrong-headed to treat diabetes by prescribing drugs that increase insulin. Metformin lowers glucose by another mechanism and does not affect insulin. One doctor I trust feels that it is one of the safest drugs that can be prescribed, so he does not worry about keeping his patients on it (they may very well need less metformin, however, so he keeps an eye on them and reduces the dose as necessary).

If you do research on the Internet, the picture of metformin is very confusing. Some articles stress the potential for negative side effects, while others glowingly describe benefits. So my conclusion is that if someone on a ketogenic diet needs metformin to get their glucose down, then so be it; and insulin should drop accordingly.


Not a bad idea in general, doesn’t work against all problem like my boredom of meat though… :wink:

(Mina Janssen) #97


I did bought a cgm to see if something I do gives me spikes. Maybe then I can see why I am insulin resistance.

In the day my glucose is good average 5 or lower sometimes 3.9. No spikes withe food glucose goes not change much maybe 5.4 or so. Some very low in the afternoon.

I see in the night it is also normal 5 or lower, sometimes very low 3.4.

But just when I wake up at 7. My glucose is 6.1 or 5.9. It stays likes that for 2 hours sometimes less sometimes more.

I upped my metformine to 2500 to lower insulin maybe that will work. But I still have high mornings glucose did not test insulin. Before metformine did nothing.

Can this high morning cause the insulin reading to be high? Because I test insulin the moment I wake up with the glucose. And can that be the reason for not losing weight? The rest of the day my glucose is perfect I never spike with what I eat. If my morning insulin is 25 will thus stay like that through the day?can I be insulin resistance just because of higher glucose in morning? Which happens with keto


Hi Mina,
Check out any podcasts of Dr Jason Fung. he explains clearly insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes, it may be helpful.

(Mina Janssen) #99

Thanx I know his work and reeds his books. Does not explain my problem

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #100

Those are good questions, and you got some good answers in the other thread. Please check them out. Your situation sounds perfectly normal, and nothing to worry about.