Can we please stop repeating the “You have to eat at a deficit to lose weight on KETO” lie?

[PaulL]

Wikipedia unfortunately can no longer be trusted as an unbiased source of info (if it ever could).

I learned this years ago, when I edited a page on a topic about which I know something, both from study and experience, and all my edits were reversed by another user with an agenda. It was at that point that I gave up on the whole idea of user-sourced reference works.

[PaulL]

I meant fructose here not sucrose . My typo.

[Emily Litella mode] Oh! Never mind . . . [/Emily Litella mode]

Cheers!

[amwassil]

Wikipedia, however, is an excellent source for references on a specific topic. It’s useful for that.

[Nay108]

Is your name FMA reference? That’s first anime series i’ve actually been able to get into!

[David_Stilley]

@Nay108 No, I have watched that but I am a serious film buff and the name is from the Kubrick film Full Metal Jacket cause I’m crazy about that film, one of my favourites. Private Pyle’s struggle with carb addiction and the insanity that resulted!

[amwassil]

To stop driving this topic further off course, I created this topic to discuss fructose metabolism:

What about fructose - does it convert to glucose or not?

I think we may need to reassess our understanding of the metabolism of fructose. PDF: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(17)30729-5.pdf HTML: http://tiny.cc/uncgcz Summary Excessive consumption of sweets is a risk factor for metabolic syndrome. A major chemical feature of sweets is fructose. Despite strong ties between fructose and disease, the metabolic fate of fructose in mammals remains incompletely understood. Here we use isotope tracing and mass spectrometry to track th…

[Happyheart]

Okay I’ve read every response including my own and I think there is a lot that is still not understood totally by nutrition experts and Keto experts alike. I happened to watch this video and thought he did a nice job explaining what he believes happens with metabolism and our bodies. I’m sure we are all unique in how we eat and metabolize and that time may affect each of differently. I don’t know if a year from now I will still have to eat trying to not lose or I will find that I have to cut back on something. Who knows?

[David_Stilley]

I want all these old timer over 100lbs lost people to stop spreading this myth to newbies who don’t have a clue yet how keto works.

Ya, if there’s ANYBODY that shouldn’t give advise it’s keto’rs that have done this way longer and lost more weight than most!

Well I weighed 250 in 2015. I lost and regained doing calorie restriction. I started KETO and have lost 56 lbs. down to 149 lbs. now. So I am down 100 lbs too. I don’t question their weight loss or success, only restricting calories. My experiences with calorie restriction with or without KETO haven’t been good.

[tankgirl]

I started my keto journey trying to hack keto to replace the things I used to eat. It make mealtime extra complicated and expensive and you are definately right about not being able to judge the satiety signals eating that way. Once I stopped trying to replicate my previous carby way way of eating with keto substitutions mealtime became so much simpler and cheaper without all the expensive sweeteners and ingredients. Also since I stopped doing that, i use much less sweeteners and want them less often as well. Meat and one or 2 veggies or a small salad does the trick and I am never snacky outside of my 16/8 window. You are right about it being about what you choose to eat. It is a good thing to not fall for the lure of prepackaged keto items. They usually are highly processed, contain questionable ingredients or both and make you more suseptible to “cheats”.

[David_Stilley]

@tankgirl Real Food FTW!

[barns]

It’s like I put this gas in the tank and I can go 400 miles because a mileage calculator says I can, ignoring factors like terrain, wind, road conditions, traffic and countless other things to bung up those estimates.

this is very true. We agree on alot more then you probly think. all im saying is that alot of us do need to look at calorie consumption. I am most defiantly not saying its all that matters but i do believe its a piece of the puzzle. Even in your fuel analogy you are obviously tracking how much you put in to determine the 400 miles. I bet most people track calories and just dont really realize it. I am not really over weight by much. within 20 lb from where i would like to be and not t2d so my journy is different then some but its also the same as others. I try to stay keto but am not perfect. Thats where most would say that that is my biggest problem not the calories. Maybe they would be right or maybe wrong. what i do know is when i am solid keto and in full ketosis(Blood meter testing) I have to watch how much I eat or the needle doesnt move. Its not just about the scale number that im talking about. You know the feeling like you either lost a little or gained a little but the scale says the same. Kinda rambling here but my point is that some of us need a deficit in order to drop the last weight(in my opinion). and if your wondering i am at 210lb and would like to get to around 190.

[David_Stilley]

I just watched this and it addresses what is being debated here with regards to deficit, weight loss, and calories.

It ties all the bits I knew together in a meaningful way.

[DeeCS]

I respect Dr. Fung tremendously. I have 2 of his books and I’ve read them. I just find it very difficult to listen to him because he says ‘right?’ so many times. It’s like nails on a blackboard to me.

[Rclause]

Right

[DeeCS]

Riiiiiiiight! Got your number now, lol.

[SomeGuy]

respect Dr. Fung tremendously. I have 2 of his books and I’ve read them. I just find it very difficult to listen to him because he says ‘right?’ so many times. It’s like nails on a blackboard to me.

I hear you and I respond…

So, I’ve stripped a transcript of this video via Youtube (I admit, not elegant formatting, more like a long run-on sentence) but, in doing so, I have replaced the word “right” with ‘r’ throughout.

And so now, although ‘r’ appears a lot, I find it more entertaining than annoying when seen with this little transformation.

Besides, I find it’s a lot faster to read a transcript than watching a video (even on accelerated speed), so this becomes a faster way to consume Dr Fung’s valuable content (at least for folks who absorb things better this way).

More enjoyable, right? See attached: Fung-Rightless.pdf (134.5 KB)

[DeeCS]

[DeeCS]

Another comment, most if not all of the studies were done on people eating a high carb diet. I wonder it would come out differently if the studies were done on people doing a ketogenic diet.

[David_Stilley]

To which studies are you referring? It might be worse with the restriction/loss/regain pattern on a carbohydrate diet but I believe the same mechanism will work against you intentionally restricting any nutritional program and trying to manipulate your metabolism in that way. It works till it doesn’t and you’ve trashed your metabolism and are hungry all the time till you eat more and start regaining. We’re built that way. Keeping insulin lower and ramping up your metabolism is the secret hack of KETO, not restriction of food.

[DeeCS]

Some of the studies I see being referred to don’t state the diet macros, so my assumption was that they are the standard American diet.

I know that Dr. Bekman has proven that protein doesn’t raise insulin on a keto diet to the extent that it does on SAD and that the glucagon:insulin ratio doesn’t change at all when someone in ketosis eats protein. So I wondered if that carries over to other things that have been studied.

I’m not saying that the conventional wisdom is wrong, I’m just wondering.