Can atherosclerosis be reversed?

(B Creighton) #1

Hi everybody. I’m starting this thread as I want to discuss experiences with atherosclerosis.
At the end of September I had a carotid artery ultrasound. Last December I had a full blood panel done, and my total cholesterol was 175 and my triglycerides were 198. Oh my!! If I had a doctor what would they tell me to do? Yep! I’m in horrible danger of heart disease. I need to go on a statin immediately!

Did I do that? I’m determined not to go on medicines for this kind of thing. A recent study of Norwegians 63-65 yrs of age showed 90% had some degree of carotid plaque. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6015330/ Mine came back with NO carotid plaque detected. I am 62, but I am supposed to be a walking time bomb according to modern medicine… sigh. What I haven’t said yet is that when I got that blood work done, it showed my ketones at 1… I was burning fat. My VLDL was a little high, because my LDL particles were full of fat and cholesterol… but with the ketone number I know that is because I was burning fat. It was not because my fat was circulating around waiting to get into an insulin resistant fat cell… context matters.

I wish I had a carotid ultrasound 5 years ago when my blood pressure was borderline hypertensive, but I don’t. I did have some varicose veins in my right leg and foot, but no actual objective studies I can prove I had plaque with… nevertheless, my higher BP indicates I was developing plaque. It is apparently now gone. Any of you have actual objective proof of reversal? Or studies to discuss?

(Michelle Dahlgren) #2

Im also 62, also had rising bp and rising cholesterol before keto and was obese and miserable because i was swollen with inflammation. I went on keto almost 5 years ago. HDL 86, triglycerides 63vLDL 180. Ive had a zero calcium score and a <3 score for the carotid sonogram. I would bet money I did have plaque but do not now. My husband has the same story so it doesnt seem likely its a rare thing. I did read a study where they found a few people that did have lower plaque after a year but I cant find it. I’ll post it if I do.

(Ethan) #3

There have been studies showing Aged garlic + COQ-10 combats atherosclerosis. I’ll post an excerpt below.

FWIW, I do take (2) 300 mg Aged Garlic + 200 mg COQ-10 + fish oil twice/day, as a lifestyle choice. In addition to atherosclerosis it is excellent at supporting the immune system + removing heavy metals. I think it is very good overall and I’m totally used to taking it and very happy with it. One of my friends with hypertension started taking too a few months ago and his hypertension went away.

“A combination of aged garlic extract and coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) has been shown to reduce the progression of coronary atherosclerosis and improve inflammatory markers in a randomized clinical trial. In a study involving 65 intermediate-risk firefighters with a baseline coronary artery calcium (CAC) score greater than 10, participants receiving a daily supplement of 1200 mg aged garlic extract and 120 mg CoQ10 for one year experienced significantly less CAC progression compared to the placebo group.48 The mean CAC progression was 32 ± 6 in the treatment group versus 58 ± 8 in the placebo group (P = 0.01).48 This combination was also associated with a significant decrease in C-reactive protein (CRP), a marker of inflammation, with levels declining by an average of 0.12 mg/L in the treatment group compared to an increase of 0.91 mg/L in the placebo group (P < 0.05).48 After adjusting for conventional cardiac risk factors, the treatment group showed a 3.99-fold reduced likelihood of CAC progression compared to placebo.48 The beneficial effects are attributed to the antioxidant properties of both compounds, which may help reduce oxidative stress and inflammation, key factors in atherosclerosis development.411 The combination also improved vascular elasticity and endothelial function, as measured by pulse-wave velocity and digital thermal monitoring, suggesting enhanced vascular health.2610 These findings indicate that aged garlic extract and CoQ10 may offer a complementary approach to managing cardiovascular risk in at-risk populations.”

(KM) #4

I’m also 62. It’s apparently a theme, haha. I used keto plus extended fasting to lose about 28% body weight. Bp had been as high as 143/85 at my highest weight, is now 110/65. I will admit that my original raised bp might have been due or partially due to medication I’m no longer taking, but I credit keto anyway. :wink:

I can’t speak to plaque or cholesterol numbers. From what I can see they’re chasing their tails about what - if anything - the lipid numbers mean (especially for ketoers), or whether treatment has any positive effect on mortality. I would more trust a CAC scan, but my reasoning is, I do pretty much everything I believe optimizes my health, reduces my risk, makes me my best self. I’m as disciplined as I’m likely to get, and at this point I try out new protocols and keep them based on what I can observe, not moving a number. Having a number I don’t like won’t change my behavior, it’s just going to be another source of anxiety or a weird competition, so I’m opting out of that. If I’m wrong, well … See ya on the other side. :v:

(B Creighton) #5

Wow. I was so much like you. I lost almost 20% of my weight, but that was with gaining a good bit of muscle - probably 10 pounds over all. My blood pressure was also approaching 150/90, and that is what really gave me a wake up call, and determined me to research what to do to turn things around. I’ve always liked science and been interested in health issues, so I really took it to heart, and yeah, put everything into optimizing my health. It looks like it paid off, and I am now really happy with my overall fitness, markers, and quality of life. Thanks for sharing your improvements!

(B Creighton) #6

Thanks for sharing. I am aware of several studies showing a slowing of plaque progression, but I don’t recall any showing a reversal of plaque down to none. I do use ubiquinol, but don’t supplement any aged garlic… my wife does at times. I use garlic a lot in my cooking though. I don’t think I have ever gotten my omega 6:omega 3 ratio tested though, so I plan to do that this fall. I have started eating either salmon or sardines every week about 3 years back, and I supplement with some krill oil, cod liver oil and calamari oil. I also try to include some soluble fiber in every meal so my microbiome can make SCFAs, which have been shown to make the endothelium of the arteries happy. So you can see I have taken my health to heart(pun intended!).

(Bob M) #7

It’s like lean mass hyper-responders (LMHRs), who go keto and are lean (and generally exercise a lot), and get super high LDL, yet most have very little hard or soft plaque.

We won’t be able to know if this can be reversed until we have people followed for years who reverse it.

There was a LMHR study where they indicated that people with plaque tended to progress. Meanwhile, many did not progress. In other words, if you had zero on a CAC, you likely still had a zero even with stratospheric LDL; but if you had low/non-zero CAC, you likely increased a bit. To me, this means there’s something OTHER than LDL that’s causing CAD progression. (Note: they used CCTA, which is a lot better than CAC, and supposedly all/many had something on the CCTA, even if it didn’t progress.)

When I got a CAC scan done, I got a zero score, and 90% of the people my age at the time had higher scores.

(B Creighton) #8

It’s not the LDL that causes plaque - at least by its mere presence. That is stupid. It is whether it gets inbedded in the artery wall - esp as oxLDL - which matters. That seems to be a function of general arterial health - low BP - amount of SCFAs available to the endothelial cells to burn, etc. In the SAD there is a lack of soluble fiber, and much of the microbiome is often killed off with antibiotics, so there is little to no SCFAs to circulate. When endothelial cells are forced to burn sugar, they tend to overpopulate and gaps form where LDL can get in. BP also goes up which make it more likely that oxLDL gets forced into these gaps. If there are no gaps, the LDL is not going to get into the artery wall no matter how much there is… at least that’s one theory.

Maybe my wife will be one of the first. She did get a carotid ultrasound last year, which showed some minor plaque. This year she didn’t want to redo the test, but she has gotten her BP down considerably - she has been on a BP medicine for several years, but had to go off it, because her BP was going on the low side and she was getting light-headed. Even without it she has been at 104/60s. She has been doing keto mostly with chicken soups, salads and protein smoothies - not my idea of fun, but it seems to work for her. I won’t start keto until next month.

(Ethan) #9

I do take a few supplements. Some would say its “a lot”, but compared to people who really take a lot mine is not so much, I don’t think.

But for endothelial function, IMO the very best hack is l-Citrulline powder. Its pretty cheap and easy to add a 3 g scoop to whatever one drinks everyday, its tastes like nothing. But the benefits are just enormous on so many levels. If I had to only have one supplement that would probably be it.

(B Creighton) #10

There is scientific backing for this, and I do use citrulline. The body tends to convert it into nitric oxide. Nitric oxide gets absorbed into cells, and used up by the mitochondria pretty quickly. One of its effects is to cause the blood vessels to relax, which decreases blood pressure. BTW men who use the little blue pill actually live longer, and this is apparently the reason why. It may also somehow cause embedded LDL to get tossed loose back into the blood stream.

(Bean) #11

If you are looking at supplements, consider looking at K2. I just posted this on another thread since it’s the thing I’m reading about at the moment: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2147/JIR.S445806#abstract

(B Creighton) #12

I do believe vitamin K2 is important for cardiovascular health. I began my current jouney by first beginning vitamin K2 and vitamin D. After 6 mo of supplementation with vitamin K2, my blood pressure finally began to drop from the 140s into the 130s and upper 120s. That is one of the reasons I believe I was getting some plaque. K2 interacts with matrix GLA protein to move calcium out of the bloodstream, and one of the results can be lower blood pressure. However, I will say that I only noticed my higher blood pressure after a course of very powerful antibiotics I had to take after a surgery. This can kill off large portions of the microbiome. At first I thought that maybe it killed off parts of my microbiome that was making vitamin K2, so was supplementing with things like bacillus subtilis. I have since come to learn that one of the major players in the microbiome are biotics such as Akkermansia, which make SCFAs. Although most of these seem to get used by the colonocytes, some escape into the blood stream where they get burned by endothelial cells. Endothelial cells seem to do their best when burning SCFAs v. blood sugar, ie they “relax” and blood pressure tends to drop. So, although initially I believed the vitamin K2 was the major player in dropping my BP, now I must admit that some or even most of the improvement may have occurred by my microbiome, such as Akkermansia, recovering from the antibiotics. A few years before these antibiotics, my blood pressure was in the 120s/70s, where it finally returned. I have since gotten it substantially lower with my keto/low carb protocol.

Not that I am discounting the importance of vitamin K2… I started using it daily, and have continued every day since… partially because I don’t have a very dense bone structure, and don’t want to get osteoporosis or arthritis. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to expound upon vitamin K2.