Calorie requirements

(Erin Macfarland ) #1

I was reading a preview of the new Ketogenic Cleanse book that just came out, and while there is some excellent information, one thing caught my eye that I disagree with. Maria Emmerich says that most of her clients that become keto adapted end up consuming between 1,000 and 1,400 calories per day. That seems WAY too low! Ketosis definitely decreases hunger but I think this level of energy intake would lead to metabolic slow down and less success maintaining keto long term. It reminds me of the stupid low calorie recommendations of traditional restrictive diets. I don’t know where she’s getting these numbers from. There’s no way I could get by on such a low energy intake.

#2

I’m not familiar with the book. Perhaps she is dealing with people who are obese and actively losing weight? In that context, they would be making up the rest of what they need by burning their own bodyfat as fuel.

(Erin Macfarland ) #3

She has charts in the book for people who are actively trying to lose weight and then for maintaining weight after reaching their goal. Then she specifies that she has her clients consuming that amount after losing weight. It just seems incredibly low. Her argument is that keto makes you fuller on fewer calories. Maybe so but 1,000 calories?? That seems like a recipe for metabolic slowdown and episodes of binge eating because your body thinks its starving. I worry this kind of information will associate keto with being starving.

(Jacquie) #4

I think Maria should stick to recipes, imo. I wouldn’t look to her for any information with regard to the science behind keto. Just my $.02. :slight_smile:

(Richard Morris) #5

That is one reason why we advise people to learn to trust their appetite because most people don’t have a sufficiently sophisticated enough computer model of human metabolism with which to be able to do the calculations.

Fat to satiety does the job. Arbitrary caloric goals could end up putting you outside your metabolic window, and if you slow your metabolism you will;

  1. not lose weight as quickly

  2. feel awful

.

(Sondra Rose) #6

No science here, but anecdotally, I eat 1000 Keto calories to lose and have no issues. I maintain on about 1400 calories. I track occasionally, out of curiosity. :slight_smile:

I eat mostly ZC, highly nutrient dense Keto, though. I am also a small-boned, 5’6", 53 year old and maintain appropriate muscle mass for my activity level (walking, occasional hikes, gardening, moving rocks.)

Context is key, in my opinion.

Same lower calories for many folk in the KetoGains FB group (of which I am no longer a member; this forum is more my speed!)

Also, Dr. Fung briefly mentions on his blog that there is NO metabolic slowdown for folk on Ketogenic diets.

(Erin Macfarland ) #7

I just think throwing arbitrary numbers out there defeats the purpose of demonstrating that weight is a function of hormones and not energy balance

(Erin Macfarland ) #8

I agree completely and while she does talk about resetting hunger signals I think discussing calorie intake supports the same restrictive diet mentality of the CICO model.

(Richard Morris) #9

Yup. Dr :phinney: says in his clinical experience within 6 months after carbohydrates are reduced, people are able to trust their satiety and hunger signalling to adequately fuel them.

Of course if you want to have less body fat than your body has selected for your survival … then you can force yourself to eat fewer or more calories than you satiation signals determine. In both cases (gains or losses) the science tells us that you will yo-yo back once you revert to following your instincts.

#10

1000 to 1400 calories would be awful for me. I’ve tried 1400 and it involves going to bed hungry every night. Ketosis only does so much for appetite suppression. I recently had a DEXA scan and found out I have much larger amount of lean body mass than I thought. No wonder eating the typical low calorie diet is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me! I’m a way bigger fan of lowering insulin levels and eating to satiety.

#11

When I was tracking everything, I noticed my TDEE weight maintainence level was around 1800 net calories for the day.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #12

Agreed. That is crazy talk to me!
CICOPATHIC

(Larry Lustig) #13

Anything that complicates keto for me (like counting calories) makes it less likely I’ll stick with it. So I have no idea how many I ate before or after starting keto. But my sense is that I’m consuming substantially fewer calories on average than before. Between occasional fasts, OMAD days, and just regular decreased eating if you told me I was consuming closer to 1400 calories than 2400, I might believe you. I still have days when I’m sure I hit 2500 or 3000 calories but they’re getting fewer and farther between.

(Erin Macfarland ) #14

I would keel over at 1000 calories

(Scott Shillady) #15

I am a 300lb man, and my regular intake is less than 1000 cal a day

(Alix Hayden) #16

This is quite a controversial issue in the therapeutic keto community, particularly around cancer, because recommendations from Siegfried et al. point out that to hit therapeutic levels of ketones, the best strategy is a calorie restricted keto approach. Many people try to do this over long periods of time, and the jury is out as to whether this is necessary just during active treatment or in the long term.

(Larry Lustig) #17

To be fair, it’s much easier to go low when you have significant stores to draw down from.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #18

How? I’m serious.

#19

@BaconNectar you are likely still supplementing your diet with body fat. The recommendations for 1000 - 1400 cals for maintainence phase seem a little frugal, depending on size of course.

#20

Surely a fast-mimicking diet with added fat would be preferential for boosting gki?