If I keep losing body fat at the rate i am now I think that by the winter I may be able to do a lean bulking cycle to put some extra muscle size on. My question is i’m assuming the only macro I can raise to add a calorie surplus is fat, but if I’m fat adapted and I’m putting in more fat than I’m using will that not just add body fat and not muscle mass?
Bulking Cycle
Stevegc
(Steve )
#3
Very interesting read Ron, I’ll have to look into cyclical more in-depth. Thank you 
240lbfatloss
(Ken)
#4
Those diets are not used for Bulking. I’ve used them all. You can not expect to increase muscle mass on any of them. What they’re designed to do is preserve muscle mass while cutting, they’re all calorically restricted.
The distinction between cutting and bulking is is primarily caloric, but bulking requires a higher Carb and caloric load, as you have to secrete insulin more frequently, but without going to a Carb based nutritional pattern. You still remain primarily lipolytic. It’s commonly called a “Keto Bulk”, but is really just more calories along with timed carbs to cause more temporary releases of insulin. Carbs are simple not eaten with fats, and several hours are allowed after eating them to allow the insulin spike to pass. Typically, not enough are consumed to cause any significant glycogen recompensation, unless planned and intentional.
Limited Carb intake for metabolic and performance issues is different still, typically with simple carbs eaten around training, with the occasional total glycogen recompensation., similar to CKD, but not as calorically restricted and the need for glycogen recompensation is determined by training performance.
PaulL
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?)
#6
Wouldn’t you want to increase protein, so as to provide more aminio acids for muscle growth? Fat should provide energy for your workouts, but the amino acids are the building blocks of muscle protein.
Also, does one really have to eat carbs? I thought that the stress on the muscle produced IGF and HGH that caused the muscle to grow. Insulin will put glycogen into the muscle, but isn’t true bulk the result of growth?
Stevegc
(Steve )
#7
That makes sense to me but how far do i push protein before it messes with the keto. I’m already at the higher end of the protein scale consuming 1g per lb of lbm
PaulL
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?)
#8
Yes, 2+ g/kg is already quite high. At some point, you will have to start worrying about the insulin effect of the protein, since it will cause fat storage rather than loss. Also, around 3 g/kg is when ammonia toxicity from the body’s efforts to deal with all those amino acids starts to kick in, but if you are lifting, the limit is probably higher.
Stevegc
(Steve )
#9
I lift 3 days on one day off always between 60 and 90 minutes a session and are very intense workouts which is why I raised my protein up a bit
Foard150
(Adam Foard)
#11
I’m not a competitive/pro weight lifter, so take this with a grain of salt. I have seen around the forums quite a few anecdotal mentions from folks that get regular DEXA scans that fasting actually increases their lean mass. To the extent some people have had their lifting buddies accuse them of “juicing.”
The mechanism is pretty clear - HGH increase. This does run against the general consensus that you can only grow muscle by gorging yourself with protien shakes. Personally, I’m more inclined to believe that hormone levels will have a larger effect on muscle growth than how much protien you eat. Caviat, you have to eat enough protein, but beyond that it is just used as excess energy.
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/