Called it. Told you he’d be back after taking a breather.
@Daisy where is this “mute” a user option.
Bring back Baytowvin
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#82
Well, when a poster is rabidly posting CICO and “250g carbs is great” in a heap of threads, then I’d draw the line somewhere before that. That doesn’t seem to be too difficult a decision for a forum like this.
This isn’t supposed to be - as I understand it - an open forum, like Twitter, where any whacko can say whatever they want (often at 6am, denigrating other countries and people). It’s supposed to be a place to discuss and learn about the ketogenic lifestyle and everything that goes with it. As a result, there will be a lot of people coming here to learn about it, and having the above stuff strewn throughout the place, with forum members being very actively discouraged by admins from arguing back, seems ludicrous.
Errr, admins? That’s the one of the reasons for having them, to protect newbies from that crap.
Psychonrs
(Heather~KWOL for life!)
#83
What in the heck did I miss? Maybe I do not need to know. I see that Baytovin is gone? Nooooooo 
Ohioms
#85
Agree with Mic. Here is a post made in response to a newbie question
re: fat adaptation and appetite suppression:
“If your hunger-satiety signaling is not broken, its generally wise to listen to it. There are times (it may be triggered by block fasting, stress, exposure to cold, hormones, exercise) when my satiation is tied to the food volume. When this happens, I address it by eating a large amount of low calorie food. Nothing trumps vegetables in this aspect. I have been known to eat a pound of broccoli, or a head of cabbage, or a huge eggplant. I’ve made salads that literally weighed 2 lbs. I am not a low carb zealot, my body can handle 100-200 calories and 20-30g carb as a side dish to a meal. YMMV.”
Hello, what the heck is that suppose to mean? It sounds wonky to me as a newbie.
I need more concrete basic responses. The question was posed by someone on
Keto for 3 weeks. This is why people like Baytowvin and Mic and other critical
people on the forum help and not hinder us in our early journeys. Secondly they
lighten it up and allow humor and get me out of serious self-bashing.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#86
Yes, Baytowvin and Mic, the pillars of the community. I agree, they always have wise words and common sense. They don’t overthink it.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#88
Definition of “rumble” in British English:
2 British : to reveal or discover the true character of
Ohioms
#90
@Regina thanks for support. By the way using ACV 1 tsp with each meal and 2 tbl. at night. Cut it with water and salt other wise sissy me would not take. Seeing B/P slowly coming down. Getting back to the pillers, I feel they need feedback too and know what they contribute is important to we little people. They protect us and I appreciate that too!
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#91
I will try that again - I used it for a few days (I don’t mind the taste) then got distracted. You are right, I have been here since May, and so many of the older “experts” have either gone away or are not responding as often. Mic and @Baytowvin rock. I am at maintenance, but still need their advice re BS, stuff like that. They will be the first ones to see my lipid panel in two weeks. They are both knowledgeable, witty, educated. I’m at six months so need the advice of the “respected elders.”
Virginia
#95
@Daisy and all the other mods, admins, and the owners: I want to jump in here because this appears to be an ongoing problem.
First of all, a big huge thank you to you, Daisy, and all the other mods and admins for volunteering! It’s a lot of work for (basically) no reward!
Second, I have to admit I’ve considered bowing out a couple of times myself, due to utter frustration with the same questions over and over, unchecked rudeness, carb and vegan trolls that way outstay their welcome, and people quoting “they say” as their source.
I have some suggestions.
-
Have a Classic Keto category that supports the original definition of keto with the original carbs <20 g, moderate protein, the rest fats. No IIFYM stuff, no “they say,” none of that lever and limit stuff, no CICO, no calorie deficits. Newbies ask questions about this constantly. They need a place to start with pretty firm guidelines until they have some time under their belt. We more experienced members could easily refer newbies there for the basics, especially when it’s clear they didn’t search the forum first.
-
Other thoretical HPHF, IIFYM. HC, HPLF, or anything LF, well, they’re just not keto. Maybe they work, maybe they don’t, but they’re for sure not keto. Allow them, sure, but put them in an Alternative Plans category to keep the confusion level down.
-
Maybe you can have some required reading stickies for new members about forum rules, DNFTT, “don’t be a jerk”, what will get you banned, etc. that MUST be read before full access is granted.
Or not. These are just suggestions
I’ve seen a lot of good, helpful members leave out of frustration. I make these suggestions because I CARE ABOUT KETO AND I CARE ABOUT THESE FORUMS.
Thanks for considering, y’all. I genuinely appreciate it!
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#96
SO MUCH THIS.
I have learned so much from this place (from a fair while before I first signed up) it’s ridiculous. And always happy to be called out on my posts (unless we’re dissing podcast hosts, of course 
I’m lucky in that I’m a researcher by nature and training, so I can generally learn a lot pretty quickly (if ADHD brain is cooperating) and sniffing out the BS is second nature. Maybe first. But as a result of that, I’m well aware that many don’t have a brain wired the way mine is (and, TBF, they’re better off). And so I think we need to be careful with what information gets bandied around and looks authoritative.
I’m probably super-aware of this because I was a journalist (including TV, and one of Australia’s biggest websites, along with a lot of radio) for a long time, and I KNOW how careful we have to be with information sharing.
#sorrythatwassolong
QFT 
Happyheart
(Wendy)
#97
Ok what is IIFYM and DNFTT? I’m racking my brain but haven’t come up with anything yet. Thanks!
Daisy
#100
You have a point but I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and say that they example you used is actually a good way to respond to someone in the sense that they offer their own experience as an example rather than telling them what to do. I do x when y happens.
Taking the context into account, a great response would be to say that that is useful to know but it can be so overwhelming for a newbie with so much varied information out there that maybe it would be better to stick to basic out the gate advice and save tweaking for later? Having said that, some newbies like to play around with all sorts of approaches right out the gate. Again, it feels very dictatorial to decide what information is given to Newbies and what is kept from them for their own good. It all feels very patronising to me.
It usually comes down to language and how you address a comment you feel is out of place that leads to a flare up.
At what point do they get to stand on their own two feet? Is there a set time frame? Again, who decides what is in and out info wise and what might have some use to someone?
Well this just isn’t true I’m afraid. Keto takes many shapes and forms and deciding what is and is not keto is not for one person or community to do. I hate it when someone tells me I should be eating less fat for example - what gives them the right to do that? But that philosophy works both ways. Who am I to tell someone else that eating lower fat is “not keto”?
I think an alternative name would be a good idea or you will just start an endless debate about what keto is ( ) but great idea. We could create a new category, I am sure. Paging @richard - this would be OK right?
When you have been an admin for a while you lose the optimism that this might actually be effective for jerks! The problem is that people like you would read it, would remember it and would abide by it. Jerks would be unlikely to read it and wouldn’t give a toss about abiding by it. As I have mentioned before, we do discuss the potential banning of people being jerks. Maybe we are too lenient but that is something for the Dudes to decide. Personally, I am not a fan of being too trigger happy when it comes to getting rid of people who disagree with my keto ethos. What I am happier about is clamping down on the jerk element. Maybe we should start employing a 3 strikes and you get a warning/suspension and after that you are out - something like that? That relies on the community flagging jerks. I wouldn’t approve a flag that was a respectful disagreement though. What would I do if someone started talking about carb cycling in your new category and you flagged them? If we get the new category approved and you have set strict guidelines in the pinned post then I would probably approve the flag. There is an advantage with allowing such discussions to stand though and that is to illustrate the guidelines. Because many people don’t bother reading your pinned post, this is a good way to “educate” them! What you could do though is to shut down further discussion - so leave the original comment and your response but stop further discussion with something like “these kind of comments don’t belong in this category which abides by the guidelines set out in the pinned post etc.”
As far as jerks go, they can exist in both camps. Those enforcing what they see as the “rules” can be just as jerky as those challenging them. There are ways of debating without being a jerk. I do speak from experience on this and my own period of time as being jerky! I used to see red mist all the time in the old FB group and went on rampages against just such offenders to what I saw as keto all the time. I’m not proud of acting like that and have tried to learn from it and find ways of getting my message across in a less inflammatory manner. Hot head takes over sometimes of course but, in the main, I stay calm! One of the ways I did this was to avoid the groups of people who loved to troll so I do understand if you feel there are members who are behaving that way on the forum that are difficult to avoid. The best way to bring them to our attention is to flag jerky comments but to flag without emotion - so a heated disagreement that sticks to facts is not really jerk behaviour unless the context is inappropriate or you feel it is going on endlessly for no other reason than to be trolly.
I don’t know if that ramble was any use to you @Virginia? Hope so
You can always tag someone specific if you think they can help like @siobhan for example - the lipid queen!