Born in Ketosis

#1

Babies born in ketosis. ok I have have read this many times, and not sure if challenged if I could produce much science that would stand up to any scrutiny. So save going there, I have non.
But, if we are born in ketosis, mother nature does not mess about, should ketosis be our natural state ?. Would the entire human population be in a state of ketosis had mum not introduced carb’s, sorry mum no offence intended.

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(Ethan) #2

Ketosis is our default state. In the absence of carbohydrates, we go into ketosis. Fasting is also our default state. In the absence of food, we fast.

#3

I like “Ketosis is our default state.” Although I am sure our ancesters (spellcheck) went hungry at times, maybe they would have done even better if they did not have to be hungry? Of course they had no choice .But we do ,fast ?
Not one for fasting at this time. I eat between 9 am and 5 pm,breakfast and dinner. This may be called intermitant (spellcheck) fasting, but not looked into fasting much. Not looking to lose weight. Just be healthy. Thank you for reply.

(Chris) #4

Here you go:

Written by @amber

#5

In brief

  • Newborn infants are in ketosis. This is their normal state.
  • Breastfeeding is particularly ketogenic (compared to formula feeding).
  • Breastfeeding longer (up to a point) is associated with better health outcomes.
  • This suggests the hypothesis that weaning onto a ketogenic diet would be healthier than weaning onto a high-carb diet.
    Thank you.
    Dread1840
(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #6

Well I don’t know if being born in a state of ketosis has much bearing on how healthy it is for you, but generally yes to your post. We evolved to be able to make the most of a diet that is very low in carbohydrates. It’s definitely a healthy state for a human to be in most of the time, mostly because it had to be for our ancestors to survive.

#7

Hi Roy, my point being, if mother nature birth’s us in a state of ketosis, that must be best? and if we all staid in a state of ketosis, happy day’s. It’s only a hypothetical question. No drama’s needed. ( not referring to Roy here).

(Running from stupidity) #8

Being born involves unique circumstances, so I wouldn’t draw general principles from that.

Kittens are born blind.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #9

I’m not sure if I recall correctly, but my baby’s glucose was 18 when he was born (later preterm, at 34w 3d). I had been eating keto for about 2 months prior to his birth. No idea what kind of ketone levels he had (I didn’t think to ask and wasn’t in a good position to, as he was being whisked off to the NICU.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #10

Babies also live off only milk, which would not be healthy for an adult. Ketosis is a natural state, but so is glucose burning. Some of us have been glucose burning too much, which caused problems we need to fix by eating ketogenically. But a healthy person uses both kinds of metabolism. Naturally.

(Ken) #11

Babies are born in LIPOLYIS, not Ketosis. You can be ketogenic without eating fat. Let’s not add to Nutty Keto Dogma.

Next thing you know, some nutjob will be forcing their baby to Fast.

#13

@MiKetoAF I don’t think the numbers in that study strongly support a sweeping statement that implies all or most babies are born in a state of ketosis, unless I’m misreading it.

#14

I’ve understood other places where you’ve made this distinction, I agree it’s an important distinction for all of us following this WOE. But this one I don’t get, because it’s not an either/or thing, it can be both. As in neonates and infants, for example. They have been shown to be both in lipolysis and ketosis.

Yeah, actually they are. It’s interesting, but they do rely to an extent on fat reserves.

Actually, I’m going to correct myself, or clarify rather. They are lipolytic but the full picture is that they are born into a metabolically flexible state. They even have a higher rate of gluconeogenesis in the liver than adults do.

(Mike W.) #15

My daughter is currently being breast fed by my Keto wife. When she is strong enough to sit up on her own we will start her on real foods. No purees, no “cereals”. Low carb high fat. Basically she will eat whatever we are eating. I honestly can’t think of a better start to life for her. She hopefully won’t have to deal with obesity or any other metabolic derangements. I will warn you though, Keto babies will never be at the top of the growth chart. Her weight is in the 2nd percentile and it drives her Drs NUTS. They keep saying something HAS to be wrong. The only thing “wrong” is she is not producing large amounts of insulin and storing fat like most babies. Developmentally she is right on target if not above.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #16

Infants are in ketosis as long as they are breastfeeding, which is a growth state, not a catabolic state. They don’t need to fast for that any more than adults do. Humans are the only species we know of that are in ketosis while fully fed and without protein restriction, and this is strongly suggestive that we evolved in a high protein, high fat, low carb, ketogenic condition. My talk at Breckenridge was about this entire phenomenon: http://www.ketotic.org/2018/04/ketosis-without-starvation-human.html

It is a mistake to confuse ketosis with fasting, to say that ketosis emulates fasting, or to think that fasting is the only natural state in which we are in ketosis.

(Mike W.) #17

You’re right. I may have misread that as 47% percent.

("Don't call it calories, call it food") #18

I realize this graph depicts the result of fasting, but I thought it would be relevant to the discussion.

FFA3

Also…

Screenshot_20180922-080052
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(L. Amber O'Hearn) #19

It’s absolutely relevant. I have it in my talk. The thing to note about it is that the neonates start in nutritional ketosis, and then just develop it faster than others. That’s partly because they don’t have to keto-adapt.

I also have a post about those sugars in breast milk: http://www.ketotic.org/2015/04/what-about-sugars-in-breast-milk.html

(Mike W.) #20

Just curious, wouldn’t the content of breast milk vary depending on the individual and also the babies needs? Would someone on a Ketogenic diet produce more fat in their milk and less sugars?

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #21

That paper is hard to interpret because of the strange measurement they use, but it appears to be talking about ketoacidosis.

They say these were the number of infants with more than 10 times the “normal” level, and this is given in mmol BOHB per mol of creatinine. I haven’t been able to confirm what normal BOHB per creatinine is.