Blue Zones... looking for videos online that comprehensively refute the ridiculous claims

(Edith) #42

I listened to this podcast. What I found very interesting is that there seems to be a cultural difference between what the people of Sardinia consider to be “meat” and what researchers consider to be meat. Therefore, when asked if they eat a lot of meat they say “No” but in actuality, they have some with just about every meal.

There was a Peak Human podcast several years ago with Mary Ruddick, a world traveling nutritionist. At the time she was living in Ikaria, Greece, another blue zone. There seemed to be this same cultural difference in definitions. In Ikaria, they defined lamb as lamb, not “meat”. Beef was meat to them, so when they answered food frequency questionaires, they said they didn’t eat a lot of meat. Well, turns out they eat lamb all the time.

So, these differences have made me wonder a few things:

  1. Did the researchers really not know this, or did they deliberately keep their blinders on? I’m thinking deliberate blinders.
  2. In reference to the article I posted above:
    It seems when choosing the blue zones they look at the number of centenarians and the diet of the population as a whole. Do they actually question the individual centenarians to see what they eat? It’s possible that those that do reach great age may diverge from the rest of the population in how or what they ate over the years.
#43

But it doesn’t seem to be about the definition of meat but the definition of “a lot” :wink: Maybe it’s both, of course, I don’t know how they eat.
And eating meat for every meal doesn’t mean someone eats much meat at all. It’s not frequency but amount…

If I was asked if I ate much meat, I don’t know what I would say… Probably yes as compared to the average person, my on/off carnivore-ish diet has much… But I don’t think I eat particularly much meat. I don’t even need that so maybe I just have weird ideas about “much”. I never can call a decent, 1900 kcal lunch “big” either…

Oh my.
Animal flesh is meat to me. Fish is meat, chicken is meat, crickets - IDK but no one eats much crickets… Sometimes I count fat tissue as meat :wink: It was part of the meat, after all and I always count the fat tissue still connected to the meat as meat…

I don’t think people answering such questions is very reliable… But this lamb thing? I never met such a weird definition.

(I don’t consider fruits sweets though… But lamb is obviously meat! While fruits aren’t obviously sweets. They are nature’s candy but it still make them sweets for me as whenever I wanted sweets, I didn’t want fruits and vice versa. But for some people, it doesn’t matter. Chocolate or fruits, the same category. Even my SO has this sometimes… Maybe it’s similar with lamb, I just don’t understand why… I thought even with human’s weird definitions, red meat is always meat! )

You may have a point… Though I still think it’s too complex, there are genetics, mental/emotinal things and many more so I never would follow centenarians’ eating style as it may not be good for me… (And anyway, I am happy if I can find something I feel okay with, I can’t just decide on a diet and follow it. Not even if I am sure I should. My other parts have a say too.)

(Geoffrey) #44

I would think that “deliberate blinders” might be accurate especially when you are trying to prove out your own hypothesis.
That also goes hand in hand with research funded by the food or pharmaceutical industries, you always get the results you pay for.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #45

This is true in a lot of cultures. For instance, in the South American Spanish I learned in high school, the word carne, which literally means flesh or meat, is used to mean beef. So carne asada = “roast beef.” We do something similar in English, when we refer to “meat and poultry,” as though chicken flesh isn’t really “meat.”

(Bob M) #46

Same with Christianity, where fish isn’t “meat”.

As for “blinders”, I think of them as filters: you just filter out things that don’t meat (see what I did there?) your beliefs.

#47

The reasons why are unclear. Death occurred on average at 84.8 years. What is interesting is that their health was not good. Their rates of hypertension, osteoporosis, diabetes, obesity, kidney disease, cancer and dementia were higher than the control group in every case.

#48

In the article

The findings showed higher rates of comorbidities and lower mortality among Holocaust survivors

They did live longer!

(Mihalis) #49

I was watching a doco on this and in every one of these blue zones when they showed a person who was into their late 90’s or 100+, the absolute majority of them were hunched over with a lot of back problems and they looked like 130 or 140 years old instead, especially the Japanese B.Z’ers. It might have something to do with the high amount of oxalates in sweet potato’s. So just because someone lives to a century, doesn’t mean their quality of life is still gonna be that crash hot. I’m more interested in what guys like Ken Berry and Anthony Chaffee are gonna look and feel like at 90+, hopefully they both get there.

(Brian) #50

I’m very interested in that as well, Shawn Baker, too.

I know, we all get old. That’s kinda the way it works. But when I see someone who’s old and looks young, stands tall, walks strong, doesn’t slouch, has a sharp mind, and doesn’t look like death warmed over, I’m interested.

(KM) #51

And us! Don’t forget about us! Part of participating in this forum for me is hoping to see how well we all do with this choice.

#52

Just my thought :slight_smile:
Of course I am most interested in myself, not just because I am obviously selfish but I went low-carb when I still felt pretty healthy and well… Not a sick, older one who may or may not undo the damage. Though I am sure a few decades on a good diet still helps a lot… But if someone didn’t go too far and even has good genes health wise and exercises too as that is very important if one wish to stay fine even at 100 and beyond… What can that one have at 100?
I want to climb mountains (just some hiking, not true climbing :smiley: I never interested much in that), it’s my very old goal. Some people come to visit me at my 100th birthday, maybe and they see the note, I went to climb this or that.
But that’s only at 100. I want to get Guinness record with my lifespan. The current record is 122 years now but that’s many decades away for me so I expect it to go up until then… But it’s just a wish and a plan, I want to raise the quality of my life too and it’s… Very much not good now. Life is tricky for some of us, we don’t feel compatible with this world… We can make our own bubble to some extent but that has conditions too.

(Edith) #53

Of course, that means we all have to stay posting on this forum for the next 30-50 years. :rofl: Most people come and go. There are not too many of us long-timers.

(KM) #54

But there are some. Hang in there, everybody, my science experiment depends on you! Well, I mean, hang in there anyway … :grin:

(Brian) #55

That’s true. I’ll just speak for me… I was pretty active in this forum back in the later 20-teens. I had just gone keto after having left a pretty strict vegan / vegetarian lifestyle and told by the important people of the former church that I was going to kill myself with this crazy diet. I needed people who were living this way and would interact with me.

Fast forwarding a few years, I lost a bunch of weight, got a lot healthier, and kinda got into the routine of eating very-low-carb / keto and life was a lot more interesting than just what I was going to eat or not eat today. I had stuff to do, I had living to do that I was too fat to do before. So I kinda drifted away from posting here. Some of the old damage was too extensive to heal on even the best diet but yeah, I did a little hiking, too, places I could never go at well over 300 pounds. But the bum leg… well… that’s just not gonna ever be normal. (Bad accident in 2015. Lots of plates and screws and some continuing issues. But thankful I was able to keep the leg.)

I’ve had a fascination with carnivore recently, still not there, and don’t know if I’ll ever be there though sometimes I lean that direction very heavily. So I’ve been spending a bit more time here again.

Life kinda ebbs and flows and when health is pretty good, it’s easy to get busy thinking about and doing other things.

Just my take. :slight_smile:

(KM) #56

I’ve definitely had my share of coming and going on forums, including this one - coming back after about 2 years gone, there was a lot of turnover and some hyper posters gone, as well as a few that just worry a bit. Where’s @velvet gone? I don’t really expect to see a continual record from anyone in particular, but whatever we get would be useful.

#57

I don’t plan to go away for long… I am actually too much here all the time, that may change and that wouldn’t be bad - but I will come back to tell what happened :slight_smile: I am a loyal one and the company here is very good. The carnivore thread people is basically a big family, distant in space, less distant in soul! :smiley: Or how should I put it :slight_smile: And I need some kind of social life if I don’t have one irl.
We talk about so many things beyond food though we do talk A LOT about meat and other things :smiley: We can’t seem to get bored of it… I already couldn’t go too far from carnivore for longer term even all alone but it helps to be there.

(Brian) #58

I had mentioned earlier that my wife is not nearly as enthusiastic about the idea of carnivore. We still eat meat heavy but she wants some veg, way more than I do.

I think if I were all of the sudden alone, I’d probably be way closer to carnivore and would probably have a LOT of hamburgers. I love hamburgers. Could probably eat them most every day. Beef has become a favorite. Love not only hamburgers, but meatballs, and meatloaf, too. Steak is kinda so-so, I don’t have the dental equipment to really chew well and unless it’s fork-tender, it’s difficult to eat. Now when it IS fork tender, it’s a delight! That’s rare for me. (Now if carnivore could help me grow back the teeth that were lost as a vegan… if only… )

Funny thing is, I really don’t like chicken much anymore. Fish, I do like but don’t have a lot of access to quality where I live. Pork, I like sometimes, but I get kinda weary of it if I have it too much. (My wife likes it enough that she’d just about have it at every meal. She seems to see pork like I see beef. LOL!)

(Bob M) #59

My wife and I have been eating a lot of lean chicken and pork, for a special diet. When we finally get around to beef, I’m always “Wow, that hits the spot!” I wonder if there’s something in beef (iron?) that I need and that beef provides, which chicken and pork do not?

(KM) #60

Supposedly beef is a more “complete” protein source, although that may be splitting hairs. I find the same sense of joy and satisfaction from it, especially after a few days off.

(Brian) #61

Might be. The digestive system of a cow is considerably different than a pig or a chicken. I also wonder about the quality of much of the store-bought meat, especially chicken. We have local farmers where we get out beef and pork but chicken, at least the kind that is raised like we’d like, is harder to come by here and way more expensive than even the beef. Have also noticed I never feel so good when I eat store-bought chicken, not so sure why. (And who knows what Tyson feeds 'em. That’s a rabbit trail…)

It’s purely anecdotal but I’ll share anyway…

I play piano (keyboard) with a 3 piece band, mostly 20’s - 50’s jazz. I have learned that I have to take my drinks along for on stage, especially for gigs lasting over an hour. I do a lot of sweating and sometimes play way harder than some would imagine. Have had times when my dear wife took the drink bag (keeps a number of them cold) and I couldn’t reach it. Started cramping up even. People thought I was having a heart attack, no, I was dehydrated. And after asking for my water, and having to repeat it numerous times, drinking down a pint or so, I was just fine. I also normally have three levels of drinks. #1 is just water. #2 is a soft drink with sugar, non-caffeinated. #3 is for when I need a real kick, usually a fully caffeinated Pepsi.

On stage, my typical is just the water but if I feel like I need something more, the others are there. The last several gigs have gone just fine with water only.

But more to the point I was getting at… There was one time before a gig that I ate two 1/2 pound homemade hamburgers for a total of 1 pound of ground meat. It probably had some cheese, some mustard, and perhaps a few slices of dill pickle, but a significant hunk o’ meat. It was the best I’ve felt at a performance ever. Seriously, I was on my game. I was alert, full of energy, it went well. And even though it kinda felt like I might be overeating just a little when I ate that second hamburger patty, I have wondered whether there was something more to that whole experience. I have another gig coming in a little over a week and I’m thinking I may try it again to see if I have similar results.

Probably more than anyone wanted to know… LOL!!