Blue Zones... looking for videos online that comprehensively refute the ridiculous claims

(Brian) #21

… which is why the timing of a study would be particularly noteworthy.

(MavisArthur) #22

Take a look at this PBS documentary about Roseto, PA, a little blue zone. Not vegan, not low carb, not Mediterranean, lots of smoking and drinking. It does enjoy an abundance of community, which is what it has in common with the other well known blue zones.

#23

Eating nothing but meat in the short term may be beneficial but in the long term? Who knows.

Really, how so? How do carnivores age? What is their life expectancy? Better yet, show me a place on the planet where the population eats nothing but meat and also has an inordinate amount of healthy centenarians.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24

Well, the Plains Indians of North America were known for the number of healthy old people, until they adopted the white man’s diet, with its highly refined grains and sugar and refined seed oils. This is well-documented. Who knows if those old people were really over 100, but the testimony (from natives and colonists alike) is that a lot of those old folks could remember long-past events that could be dated, so who knows? Their age and their health were still noteworthy, even if they were only eighty or ninety.

Vilhjalmur Stefansson lived a healthy life until age 82, after about five decades of eating only meat. Stanley Owsley was unfortunately killed in a car crash in his fifties, so we’ll never know how well he would have aged. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how well Charles Washington, Kelly Hogan, Shawn Baker, Amber O’Hearn, and Georgia Ede hold up.

The more I read, the more I lean toward the hypotheses of Malcom Kendrick, Uffe Ravnskov, and David Diamond, who identify stress and coagulopathy as causes of arterial damage, not to mention glycation damage to the glycocalix; the cholesterol observed in the plaques seems to be part of the healing process. I can well believe that certain lipid numbers, such as Apo(b), etc., can be worthwhile markers of cardiovascular disease, but I strongly doubt they are causal.

The pharmaceutical industry has too much money invested in targeting lipids, and too much profit at stake from drugs developed to affect lipid numbers, for the current narrative to be easily replaced. If lipids cause cardiovascular disease, then that bolsters their profits; but if lipids turn out to be merely markers that accompany cardiovascular disease (with the real cause lying elsewhere), that revelation is likely to have a deleterious effect on pharmaceutical executives’ annual bonuses, which is what this is all really about. After all, I can lower my thermometer reading by plunging it into cool water, but that doesn’t address the cause of my fever. But if they can make me believe my thermometer is causing my fever, then they can sell me special thermometers that give lower readings.

#25

Fever isn’t even a bad thing. It happens when something bad happens but it has its role :wink: So maybe your body doesn’t need a fever reduction in the first place. It may, that is a thing too but “fever is bad” is another black and white thing. You surely know this, it’s just a tiny addition :slight_smile: You focused on “lower readings for the sake of lower readings” when it’s not what is important but there is the part where something is called bad while it may not be… Often the two comes together, I read about it on this forum a lot… :frowning:

By the way, I like your metaphors :slight_smile: They can drive the point home!

(KM) #26

He is actually the person narrating and traveling to explain the blue zones in the documentary series I mentioned - it’s playing on netflix, I have no idea if they produced it. So at least the narrative is straight from the horse’s ass. Um, mouth.

#27

In Australia if you get into a blue, it means that you have been in a fight. So, what I am reading here is “Fight Zones”.

#28

I have not been paying attention to his information recently. Over twenty years ago, when I was first exposed to it, diet was just a small part of the big picture. Now, it would seem it is a major part of his picture. While I may discount his diet advice, his other information does have some merit. The statements on his website are somewhat disingenuous.
“To make it to age 100, you have to have won the genetic lottery.” or ‘he attempts to debunk the most common myths and offers a science-backed blueprint for the average American to live another 12 quality years.’ This last bit of information comes from a study that said vegans live an extra 12 years longer than those on SAD. Poorly researched and had virtually nothing to do with diet.

(KM) #29

I think the terms Blue Zones and Mediterranean Diet have become synonymous in the public mind. Dan Buettner is still trying to promote all nine pillars of the Blue Zone hypothesis, but he’s definitely pandering. I found the documentary amusing / irritating because wherever the strong focus was not diet, one of the other pillars was used to explain why the “bad” diet wasn’t affecting people. (A behavior that apparently is not preventative everywhere else.)

(KM) #30

I have a personal theory about Okinawa, somewhat predicated on the first episode of the series. These people survived world war II. They survived an invasion. And they survived by banding together. They had a purpose, they had a united social structure, and the people who made it were survivors. And they are still banded together, and their community takes care of them. I mean literally. Not just respecting them, but including them in social activities. Doing things as groups, as if really old people were just, well, people!

(Geoffrey) #32

I’ve traveled to a few of those places and from my observations I saw plenty of meat being eaten. Not as I would being a carnivore but as someone who ate a fairly liberal ketogenic diet.
In other words, what I observed was people eating fresh whole foods. Very little highly processed food. Moderate use of sugar and no seed oils.
If anything I’d say that has more to do with it than meat vs vegetable.
In the studies that vilify meat they always seem to ignore the use of highly processed foods, sugar and seed oils.

(KM) #33

Yes! I’ve noticed that. Plant based v. “Meat and sugar”, as if those were similar somehow. :thinking:

(GINA ) #34

To my knowledge, Loma Linda, CA has a large population of Seventh Day Adventists. They are vegetarian, so the pro-vegetarian crowd likes to claim that’s why they live a long time. They also tend to have traditional family structures where someone (mom usually) is in the home and cooking meals. Whatever they consist of, home cooked meals at 6:00 are going to be better than fast food at 8:00 after work, errands, and picking up the kids from daycare. They also don’t drink or smoke.

(Brian) #35

I am a FORMER SDA so I am pretty familiar with the whole “health message”, including their crowing about Loma Linda. I’ve also seen a lot of really bad health among the common people of that particular denomination, some of which adamantly profess to be “doing it right”.

I do appreciate the conversation here and very much agree with the other factors being mentioned having a significant part in longevity and overall health. That agrees with my own personal study of the matter from years ago. It does kinda grind on me, however, when certain people drag out the “I’m vegan and eating the diet God intended so I’m gonna live to be 100+ with no health issues, nanna nanna nanna” card and expect me to just roll over and consider that the mic drop, they’ve now won the argument hands down.

I didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday afternoon. I’ve been around that block for half a century before coming to my senses. The sermon doesn’t jive with reality.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #36

“I’m vegan carnivore and eating the diet God intended so I’m gonna live to be 100+ with no health issues." There, fixed it for you! :grin:

(Brian) #37

LOL!! I hear ya, Paul. I was just giving the argument I get presented with every so often.

(FWIW, they’re not fond of Gen 9:3. “If it moves, it’s food!” LOL! I have sat through hours and hours and hours of “health lectures” they’ve given and have never once heard that one mentioned. :wink: )

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

You can also quote them this passage, beginning with Genesis 4:2b:

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

We know how that all ended! :grin:

#39

Very curious about this, I see mentions of studies like this one https://news.llu.edu/research/vegans-found-have-highest-amount-of-disease-fighting-biomarkers or the one claiming that vegan SDA lived the longest followed by vegetarian and I do wonder. I don’t believe them but I wonder where and how they got them. I realize SDAs have an anti meat agenda

As for the OP, my theory on Okinawa is that the lack of food during the war is what helped them live longer since people that are underfed do live longer. I believe there are also a bunch of Askenasie Jewish Holocaust survivors who lived longer in part because they do have a gene that delays aging but also because of food deprivation for an extended period. Most of these people enjoyed their meat once they were able to go on with their lives

(Edith) #40

https://www.foodnetwork.com/healthyeats/healthy-tips/what-the-worlds-oldest-people-eat

Here’s a fun article with some anecdotes about the diets of a few women who surpassed 110. It seems chocolate may actually be the magic pill.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #41

Here’s Bill Schindler talking with Anthony Chaffee about a recent trip to Sardinia, the original blue zone: