Betting my life on Keto

(Scott) #21

Hi ajbennett, I followed the Med diet for awhile before keto but the way I see it on the Med diet I’m probably not in ketosis a lot and I have a strong feeling those ketones are doing me a whole lot of extra good. Maybe even healing heart muscle …

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #22

The Mediterranean diet is endorsed by the British cardiologist, Dr. Aseem Malhotra. His version of it is called the Pioppi diet, after some town in Italy, I believe. There is no reason not to adopt a keto version of the diet, if anyone wishes; in fact it may be ketogenic as is, depending on how insulin-resistant someone is. Interestingly, while the Mediterranean diet as devised by Walter Willet of Harvard relies a lot on olive oil, the traditional cooking fats of most Mediterranean countries were butter and lard (at least, as reported by Nina Teicholz).

I think the point of all this is that as long as we avoid sugar, most carbohydrate, and the more egregious of the seed oils, we will probably be fine, regardless of whatever name might be attached to how we eat.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #23

I would like to add to this. Yes, if we avoid the worst of the worst stuff out there we’ll be better off. We will probably be healthier and maybe live longer. Ketosis, however, is more than simply avoiding the worst of the worst. It is eating the best of the best. It is far better to have you innards awash in β-hydroxybutyrate than not. Only ketosis does this; otherwise not so much.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24

True, but as Dr. Phinney and Dr. Westman point out, you do what you can do, and don’t worry about what you can’t. Dr. Westman had a homeless patient who ate keto at MacDonald’s, because it was all he could afford, and by not ordering fries and skipping the bun regained his metabolic health and lost a lot of fat. The moral is not to let perfect be the enemy of the good.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #25

When I say “best of the best” I don’t mean: eat Kerrygold butter or nothing. I mean eat stuff that’s nutritionally beneficial rather than not. That is fats, mostly SFA and MUFAs, and proteins, mostly animal sourced. I don’t mean $$$ or nothing. I think lots of folks on this forum say they spend less on food after than they did before keto. I spend about the same. My point is eating to stay consistently in ketosis is better than not. But, sure, do what you can. If you eat the beef patty and toss the bun, you’re eating better than the person at the next table eating the bun and fries with it. I totally agree the perfect is not the enemy of the good, or even good enough. Still, it’s easy to get to ketosis and easy to stay there. Admittedly, for some it might require an attitude adjustment. :sunglasses:

(Joey) #26

… and at the risk of pummeling this point further, one’s brain consists largely of fatty cholesterol tissues - which are substances our bodies produce naturally when we are healthy.

As such, trying to cut down on the serum cholesterol in our bodies through chemical intervention ought to be seen for what it is: a faulty premise in medical logic.

[Of course this same premise helps market drugs to both physicians and patients alike.]

And there you have it. [Not that correlation proves causation, but it certainly flies in the face of being able to assert a positive association.]

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #27
(Bob M) #28

That, and that the Mediterranean diet is completely made up. Here’s the Med. How is it possible to get one single diet from all these countries?

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(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #29

If you’re Walter Williet, it’s not hard. Nina Teicholz describes how he came up with the diet in The Big Fat Surprise.

(UsedToBeT2D) #30

Yes. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is crazy. Keto has helped many of us, despite what the doctor says. Doctors are trained to treat symptoms, not the cause. In my humble opinion, keep Keto.

(Jack Bennett) #31

Well there are the Mediterranean diets, and then there’s the “Mediterranean Diet™.”

Compared to the SAD, it’s a great improvement, but that’s a fairly low bar. (See Peter Attia’s article on this issue of competing diets: https://peterattiamd.com/191027/ )

(Bob M) #32

I’m not a fan of Peter Attia. Too much cognitive dissonance for me. Examples below.

Anyway, I also don’t think the “processed meat” (whatever these are) and bad health outcomes is strong at all. Too many holes in it, particularly because the people who don’t follow any guidelines and actually flaunt them tend to eat this meat. When I started out eating low carb, I ate tons of “processed” meat, and lost quite a bit of weight and improved in every possible way.

I eat a lot less “processed” meat now, mainly because these tend to be pork (of questionable PUFA content) and fatty. I still eat ham, lots and lots of (low fat) ham, and this is “processed” I assume. But I tend toward lower fat meat and if I eat fat, I try to eat more saturated fat.

While I think that the Med “diet” as espoused by “experts” is better than any other “normal” diet, whether SAD or recommended, that’s not a stretch by any means. So, the Med diet is good mainly because it’s less bad.

As for Attia’s cognitive dissonance, listen to the first 30 minutes or so of this:

They discuss a patient with extremely high LDL, and a CAC score of zero. So, no ostensible atherosclerosis. Then they call LDL “atherosclerotic”. What?

They go on to use the absolutely terrible analogy of the LDL levels in neonates to “show” that (extremely) low LDL is “healthy”. Neonates also weigh 10 pounds, sleep all day, do no exercise, and don’t talk. How is any of that relevant to an adult?

Maybe there was good or even great information in the rest of that podcast. I don’t know. I couldn’t make myself listen to it after those two pieces of cognitive dissonance/logic errors.

(Jack Bennett) #33

I think Attia makes a reasonable point in his Game Changers article (which doesn’t really go too much into the movie). His main points are that:

  • if you go from unthinking SAD to a “health-focused” or “whole foods” diet of literally any type, you will see improvements
  • many people who change their diet make a bunch of other changes (stop smoking, start exercising) - healthy user bias
  • the people who are inclined to change their diet and other habits are the type of people who are conscientious in other ways - healthy user bias 2

He’s a smart guy but he does have some odd ideas about LDL.

#34

Hi Scott,

Why are you on the beta-blocker? Was your heart attack due to an uneven heart beat? Or, was it due to blocked arteries?

If you have been reading up on statins, you will now know that they are most useful in patients to prevent a second heart attack. Reading a bit deeper it is likely due to their anti-inflammatory effect. Nutritional ketosis and low insulin stimulus eating will reduce inflammation. So, the statin may not be useful, if one stays on a ketogenic low carbohydrate eating plan.

@PaulL mentioned that Dr. Phinney mentioned that heart muscle works well on the blood ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate. But I did not read if he mentioned that the preferred fuel for heart muscle are fatty acids. So, both ketones and fatty acids are preferred for optimal heart function before using glucose. Eating that 80% dietary fats plan is feeding your heart muscle.

Be aware that some fats that cardiologists may recommend are pro-inflammatory. So, consider avoiding processed seed oils that contain polyunsaturated fatty acids. They have been shown to increase ketone production and lower serum cholesterol. But they also are very questionable in terms of creating a general state of inflammation that leads to heart disease.

If you are on betablockers, that sets up the signal to really be aware of your electrolytes and micronutrients when on a ketogenic diet. Magnesium in its various forms is a calcium channel blocker that works like a nutrient based beta blocker on the heart. Making sure that you are getting your salts and electrolytes, may help in reducing the beta blocker requirement over time.

Cardiac surgeons are great for cardiac surgery. The best people for that. But don’t they then hand you off to a medical cardiologist for the aftercare, recovery and ongoing prevention. I’m not sure a cardiac surgeon would be the best person to get nutrition advice from.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #35

While muscles in general prefer fatty acids even over ketone bodies, a heart muscle damaged by occluded arteries does better on ketones, in particular β-hydroxybutyrate, because it is already partially metabolised, and therefore requires less oxygen to turn it into ATP. This is a boon to a compromised heart muscle.

(Scott) #36

Hi FrankoBear, yes I have a bunch of blocked arteries. The doc says the beta blocker lets the heart ‘rest’ and recover. Not sure I agree with that but he’s the expert.
My oils come from mostly salmon, olive oil, coconut oil and some MCT oil.
I recently started eating red meat (ribeye steak) for a few days after reading The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino. I was much surprised to see my blood sugar go up by 10 points and my ketone level tank, so I’ve ditched that idea.
I’m trying to stay in nutritional ketosis 24/7, I think that will do a lot more good for the heart than a beta blocker.

(Scott) #37

By the way for over a month I’ve been having NoFUN (No Food Until Noon) and that had coincided with my best-ever glucose & ketone numbers.
I think that was my missing piece to really rocking ketosis.

(MarkB) #38

Hi Scott. I very rarely post or reply but I felt for you. I am so sorry to hear about your heart attack, that must have been pretty scary. I am in a similar situation but have not had a full MI yet. I am 65, my dad died of an MI age 62, I have 2 brothers with lots of plaque each and multiple stents so big family history of severe cardiac disease.

I have had medically diagnosed stable and unstable angina for 15 years and could not exercise more than brisk walking because of chest pain / cardiac pain. Some episodes of angina took me to E.R.

So what did I do ? Well, 1st I needed a way to measure the effect of any therapy/medications/diet on arterial blockage. I cannot afford CAC scans so I began with a simple very low-carb Medf Style of Keto. I then started doing the couch to 5k running program very slowly and then progressed to 5k Parkrun which should be free to participate almost anywhere. Because it was a timed regular event I got a constant Cardiac stress test and for the 1st few months of Keto/Exercise I could only jog 100-500 metres because of angina. Angina really, really hurts.

I continued the Low carb (<30g) Med style of keto just to cover all bases and after about 3 months and a 12kg weight loss I can now run 5k in under 25 minutes with absolutely ZERO angina.

I read/watched everyone in the Keto community but stuck to the basics of less than 30g carbs per day.

So apparently what I have probably done is arrest and stabilize my existing plaque and grow collateral arteries to supply more blood. My LDL went way up but my HDL went up massively as well which is fine by me. My blood sugars went back to where they were when I was about 21 years old.

People think I am on a fad diet and I just ask them how it is possible that I can lose over 10kg and run 5k in under 25 minutes if I am poisoning myself with all that Fat. And my old doctor hit the roof when he saw my LDL ramp up so I tried to explain but it was hopeless. I am in Sydney, Australia so the obvious new doctor choice for me will be Dr. Paul Mason in the new year probably.

So basically Keto has reversed my heart disease or at very least halted its progression. I have not been able to run like this since I was about 25 years old and my jeans are now the same size as then as well.

Listen to folks on here, their hearts and minds are in the right place.

Good luck on your journey.

(Scott) #39

MarkB, this is awesome! Congratulations! It’s great reassurance that I’m on the right track. I sympathise with your doctor problem, I don’t know how to find a new one so I’m just starting to ignore the one I have (I got pretty depressed after my last conversation/argument with him).
I’m running as well, 2 miles on Mon, Wed and Fri. It was tough at the beginning but now I can finish the run at the same BPM as when I start which I take as a pretty good sign.
I’m still trying new tweaks to my keto diet but overall I think it’s been a massive help to me.
This Saturday I’m going to try a 24 hour fast just to mix things up. Yikes.
On the whole I feel fine (best shape in 20 years) except for the drugs but I’ll slog on with those because I don’t want to die and have my doc say “I told you so”!.

(Joey) #40

Love this line. Many thanks! :laughing: