Are the Keto recipes really keto?

[FishChris]

There has to be a definition of what KETO is, not just low carbs.

I completely disagree. For me, Keto is no more, than just keeping my carbs down to around 20 a day. I eat Keto bread, all kinds of artificial sweeteners, non-grass fed beef, farm raised Salmon… DIRTY all the way. Yet I feel great, and have lost 40 lbs. If I’m not doing Keto, by someone elses standards, eh. Who cares. What I’m doing, whatever you want to call it, seems to be working great for me

[Peebs]

I believe the concept that is hard to grasp around protein is that each individual is going to have varying needs. Lean body mass and activity levels are going to vary greatly from individual to individual. A male with a 210LB lean body mass and a male with a 120LB lean body mass will have very different required protein intakes to provide sufficient amino acids to maintain that muscle mass. This is compounded further when we taken into account activity levels. A sedentary person will have a much lower protein need than someone that is engaging in resistance training.

Protein, unlike carbs and fats, does not serve a primary role in providing fuel for our bodies. It is important to note that some individuals that are insulin resistant may be more prone to converting excess dietary protein into glucose, which is counter productive in a ketogenic diet.

I understand the desire for the math to work out cleanly and to apply a set ratio, but it is nearly impossible to sustain. It is too mentally taxing to plan every meal around hitting the perfect macros. I do track my food intake, primarily to hold myself accountable. I would guess my average is somewhere close to 5% carb, 30% protein, 65% fat. This has worked for me as I have got much closer to my ideal body weight, feel awesome, and frankly have really enjoyed the food that I eat.

In my profession, financial planning, clients and peers alike always try to push into a mold or formula. I.e. everyone that is X age with a net worth of Y should do ABC. The fact of the matter is everyone has different personal situations, goals, and concerns. These factors impact their financial plans. I see no reason to look a diet plan any differently.

[PaulL]

But just to reiterate, Keto doesn’t mean “zero carbs”.

But, just to be clear, nor does it rule out “zero carbs.” Since the required minimum amount of carbohydrate in the human diet is 0 g/day. My understanding is that the Dudes picked the 20 g/day limit that we promote around here as being adequate to get virtually everyone into ketosis, except those who are highly insulin-resistant, and who will therefore need to restrict their intact even further.

converting excess dietary protein into glucose, which is counter productive in a ketogenic diet.

This has turned out to be more nuanced than was formerly believed. The rate at which gluconeogenesis produces glucose from protein depends on a number of different factors and is tightly regulated by the body. Of more concern is that too great a protein intake inhibits ketogenesis. However, the effect of protein intake on hormones depends to a large extent on the amount of carbohydrate in the diet, which has a big effect on the ratio of insulin to glucagon. A high ratio favours anabolism and inhibits ketogenesis, whereas a low ratio promotes ketogenesis.

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that some people make a distinction between “keto” and “low-carb,” which I personally find essentially pointless. Any diet in which carb intake is low enough to permit ketogenesis, is a ketogenic diet, in my book, and any diet in which carb intake does not permit ketogenesis to occur is, in my book, by definition not a low-carb diet.

[amwassil]

Any diet in which carb intake is low enough to permit ketogenesis, is a ketogenic diet, in my book, and any diet in which carb intake does not permit ketogenesis to occur is, in my book, by definition not a low-carb diet.

'Good' Carbs?

But don't call it keto In comparison, yes, 100 grams of carbs per day is better than 300-500 grams. And I also agree that lots of people will be far healthier at 100 grams per day. So let’s just call it what it is: Lower Carb. Plenty of us are eating keto to gain the health benefits that derive from eating nutritional keto, not to cure or alleviate any particular medical condition. Make no mistake, being in ketosis is healthier overall than being simply lower carb. There are multiple health ben…

Stop Saying "Ketogenic" When You Mean Low Carb

[MarkGossage]

But just to reiterate, Keto doesn’t mean “zero carbs”.

Well it can do… carnivore keeps me in ketosis quite happily…

[Ruina]

Zero carb is keto, but keto is not zero carb.

[lfod14]

There has to be a definition of what KETO is

Yup, a diet that keeps you in ketosis. Many people go by the %'s, many people go by the grams of intake which can be drastically different for different people depending on their metabolism and lifestyle. Many people are just shy of being afraid of protein, many others have pretty high protein intake, some fill in the gaps with fat, some eat TONS of fat. There is not “official” way to do this. The “real” ketogenic diet is a medical intervention that nobody would want to do. What all us normies do is a variation of it, and we can all spend most or all of our time in ketosis. Individualize it to fit you perfectly, takes time but one size fits all doesn’t work. The general “this should work” guidelines to start people off are just that.

Im definitely not over thinking it, its not possible to discuss about KETO unless we actually agree what it means.

Of course we can, if it wasn’t for people playing around with it and testing limits many of us wouldn’t have the results or long term success we have. If we draw lines in the sand with rules that can’t be broken then guess what? That’s the day our way of eating becomes a DIET! We all agree that keto is a healthy way to eat, that puts less stress on our body and over all is our best bet for a longer and healthier life all we gotta do is aim for being in ketosis as much as possible. No need to take something simple and complicate it. That’s the Governments job.

[JohnH]

If you are looking for a definition of what a “well formulated ketogenic diet” looks like, here is a good read on the VirtaHealth web page:

https://blog.virtahealth.com/well-formulated-ketogenic-diet/

One snippet from that page:

Due to individual variations in carbohydrate tolerance, total daily carb intake can range from nearly 0 to 100 g/d (although tolerance of more than 70 g/d when consuming adequate protein is uncommon). Note: due to wide variations in total energy intakes in the various phases of nutritional ketosis, specifying carbohydrate as a percent of daily intake (aka ‘macros’) is of marginal utility.

But the whole thing is a good read, and you will notice that there is an emphasis on different requirements depending on any medical conditions you may be hoping to improve.

There are several ways to achieve nutritional ketosis, but not all of them are beneficial or sustainable long-term. If you want a rule-set to follow, the one in this article is a good place to start.

[FishChris]

Exactly.

[FishChris]

That was a very good post Ifod. I completely agree.
For me, Keto has been super easy. I try to keep my carbs way down to 20 gm’s a day, and eat when I’m actually hungry, and that’s it.
I eat a ton of meat, and add fat wherever it’s convenient and tastes good Bring on the non grass fed beef, any thing non organic, and please pass me the Sucralose
And nowadays, I have to have my “daily bread” too… Keto style of course

People definitely do seem to overcomplicate the Keto WOE. I guess maybe if one has complicated issues they are working on, maybe that’s what they have to do.
I just wanted to lose some weight and feel better, and I have

[BuckRimfire]

https://charliefoundation.org/diet-plans/

Many possible ratios. The Charlie Foundation seems to consider Modified Atkins to be a ketogenic diet. Is it ketogenic for you? You’ll have to test that, if you care.

If I was doing keto for epilepsy, I’d be really strict. If I had active cancer and was doing it as an adjunct to chemo, I’d be really strict. If I was doing it for migraine, I’d be as strict as needed to keep to what I thought was my minimal baseline of symptoms. If I was doing it for weight loss, I’d be as strict as needed to keep on trend toward my goal or at my goal weight. If I was doing it for diabetes, I’d be as strict as needed to keep my blood pressure “normal” and my HbA1C below 5.5%.

Since I’m not doing any of those, I’m kinda without guidance. My spousal critter is almost at goal weight (after 15 months low carb), and has had lowered (now normal) blood pressure since the beginning of keto (she has family history of diabetes), so we can use that as a household “plan,” but we don’t track carefully.

Despite what some people would consider excessive “cheating,” probably “too much” protein, and an almost complete lack of actually measurement and calculation of macros, since I got a Keto Mojo a couple of months ago I’ve always had at least 0.5 mM blood ketones. Pretty often exactly 0.5 mM or only 0.7 mM (which are basically the same number within the precision of that machine), but sometimes 1 or 2 mM. For my goals (long-term health, avoiding dementia) I don’t know if there’s any way of knowing that’s good enough, because where is the research showing that? I don’t think there is any, or I haven’t heard of it. I’m just going to have to hope that there’s some effect and enjoy the short-term benefit of being off the blood sugar roller coaster.

[ZuleikaD]

There is not “official” way to do this. The “real” ketogenic diet is a medical intervention that nobody would want to do. What all us normies do is a variation of it,

This is essentially what Amy Berger is saying in her fabulous post (one of my favorites!) that @amwassil linked to above. Keto always used to mean a medically ketogenic diet–until we all started calling the very low carb diet that Atkins, the Drs. Eades, Dr. Bernstein, et al have recommended for years for weight loss and metabolic disorders “keto” because we are in ketosis. Personally, I find this silly, but it’s semantics. If someone wants to call it keto to follow the trend, it doesn’t effect me. (I want to say I don’t care, but I’m a word person, so I do. I get totally wound up about it. But I also remind myself that it doesn’t matter, so I don’t get off into screaming rants about it ).

No one ever thought that “low carb” meant 100g of carbs/day until people started saying “keto.” Before that when you said “low carb” you meant something like the diets designed by Atkins, Eades, Bernstein, and Phinney. The only people who ever tried to call 100g of carbs “low carb” were people designing studies that were trying to prove low carb didn’t work. “Well, we fed people 150g of grains and liquid proteins shakes…”

[AAmsay43]

I second you CTviggen.
I try to keep the carbs low, but have stopped counting the Protien and Fats. I have lost 45 lbs in last 5 months, but now I am keeping my weight in control. I have come out of my high dose of Metformin as well as Losartin and Metroplolo. Having achieved the desired results for the weight losss, reversal of Diabtes and Hypertension, I am now trying to remain on a maintenance diet now.
I am checking the ketones regularly and it remains between 0.8 to 1.2. I think the range looks fine. Whenever I find that I am below the range of Ketones, I do the Intermittant fasting of a couple of days, and bring back my Ketone number within the range.

[Momof5]

That is great, Amin, way to go =). Welcome to the forum.

[collaroygal]

Amin, sounds like you are doing good. Congrats on all the changes. Welcome to the forums.

Your keto range sounds fine to me. Dr Phinney says anything .4 for nutritional ketosis, so you are there.

[Diygurl19]

For me, I like to cook so mine KETO is a little more complicated but in theory it’s the same. If I’m hungry I eat.