Are stalls really stalls?

#1

If you are following the macros in ketosis and are fat adapted and the weight is stalling, is it actually stalling?
Isn’t your body using the fat for energy?
So even if you don’t see it on the scale arent your fat cells getting smaller?

(Ethan) #2

Maybe. Your fat cells could be getting smaller if you are gaining lean mass. However, a stall is generally when you stop losing inches and weight. In other words, you are in ketosis and getting energy from the food you eat, not from your body .

#3

Does that mean you are eating too many calories?

(Ethan) #4

Not necessarily. It could mean that you are not able to pull from body fat due to them responding to insulin.

#5

So if insulin is under 100, usually under 90 and you aren’t overeating calories, it’s working?

(Ethan) #6

I think you mean glucose, not insulin. The answer is far more complicated than calories and glucose levels.

#7

Yes glucose. So you really don’t know what your insulin response is.

(Adam Kirby) #8

The time frame is important. A couple weeks is not a stall. But if you go months without losing inches or weight then there are several theories as to why. One is calorie consumption, and I think that’s the weakest. Another is that you are not “ketoing” hard enough. I’m sure some people do get lax with their way of eating and experience carb creep. Still though, stalls are almost ubiquitous and I find it hard to believe that no one can do keto correctly long-term. The best explanation to me is that a long stall is a point where your metabolic health has increased but your fasting insulin is too high to permit continued easy fat loss.

#9

So if carbs are less than 20 and carbs only come from veggies and avacado, you dont have to worry about insulin spikes, it’s really from higher glycemic foods, and did I read dairy can spike insulin?

(Jennifer ) #10

Going off of what a adam Kirby said…it’s also possible to have accidentally calorie restricted and lowered your BMR over time. So at first you’d still be losing weight, but once your BMR catches up to your intake level, you’d stall then as well.

This happened to me accidentally while doing OMAD for the past few months. I’d be getting between 1200-1600 calories most days. After 6 months of steady weight loss, I stalled for 2 months. We’re doing some fast/feast intervals to help remedy the situation now.

(Beth) #11

How old are you? Do you have thyroid or HPA axis problems, or sleep problems, or life stress, or other issues that could affect insulin response?
Some of us can have our macros right on target and still stall because of other things that affect insulin and leptin.

I’m really lucky in that I have worked with an Orthomolecular Medicine Doctor for about 4 years who knows a great deal about all this. She says stalls can sometimes be a healing phase, but if it’s prolonged, you have to look for something interfering. I had to get pretty honest about the things that cause insulin response for me: caffeine, sugar alcohols, stress, sleep problems.
I was also too aggressive with fasting initially. She had me back off a little in order to first stabilize thyroid and hormone issues.

Do you measure ketones as well as blood glucose?
Checking both really helps me track which triggers cause an exaggerated insulin response.

#12

I have stress and sleep problems, I’m 56, I used to be able to lose 25 lbs over the winter with diet and exercise, that all stopped in my 50’s.
I’m not complaining, I’m just trying to figure this out, I read alot but it’s hard to find 2 opinions that match.

It’s coming off slowly, but I just keep thinking 2 lbs a month is 24 in a year.

10 so far and 20 to go.

If I dont see it on the scale or my body fat percentage, is like to think that slowly those fat cells are shrinking. I have never had more than a point 8 on the ketone meter and my glucose is almost always under 90.

After eating.or fasting.

I work out fasted. I usually.eat on 18 hrs fasted, but I have been mixing it up. I mix up.my calories too.

I lift heavy so I retain water weight while my muscles are healing. I also.do.hiit. I might try 2 a days twice a week to see what that does.

I like this lifestyle and I want to know what I’m doing to maximize results and feel the best I can. I’m sure I’m slow because my hormones are screwed up. But a little here and there is better than nothing.

Just looking for experiences from other people and input to make this work.

(Jay AM) #13

How are you getting your bf% measured?

You probably wouldn’t see significant scale loss with this and that’s not a bad thing. It’s also not a stall. Muscle outweighs fat and, if you are building significant enough muscle, you won’t see the scale or changes in inches for a while. I wish I could find a good 2 part article I’ve read in the past. A woman named Barbara did body recomposition with lifting and she never lost or gained a pound but, the difference in her look was clear.

(Edith) #14

According to an article on the Virta Health blog, it is possible to be eating enough fat that one is using that fat for energy instead of one’s own fat stores.

(Edith) #15

https://blog.virtahealth.com/break-weight-loss-plateau-low-carb/

(Jay AM) #16

I suppose this could be true if one believes in the calories in calories out stuff that the article mentions under the fat section.

(Victoria Mc Coy) #17

Ditto that.

#18

In theory, if you’re metabolically healthy (insulin sensitive), weight maintenance can be formulated as

weight loss/gained = energy consumed (preferably LCHF or KD) - total energy expenditure

There’s a proportionate level of energy expenditure to body weight. This means that a person whose weight is at 250 lb exerts a higher level of total energy expenditure than a 180 lb person. So a person “counting macros” will eventually plateau once he or she reaches the equivalent energy expenditure of his or her energy intake.

The problem is with the phenomenon called Adaptive Thermogenesis or Metabolic Adaptation. This is a tendency for our body to go back to its original weight and maintain body energy stores (favoring survival). Our body does this by significantly reducing the total energy expenditure lower than the expected level (10% to 15% off) when body weight is reduced. So…

A formerly obese individual will require ~300–400 fewer calories per day to maintain the same body weight and physical activity level as a never-obese individual of the same body weight and composition.

This means that we can “stall” early because of metabolic adaptation.

There are several ways to overcome or minimize the impact of metabolic adaptation like the right diet (LCHF or KD) and taking diet breaks “The Matador Study”. We can also increase our total energy expenditure by doing exercise or taking capsinoids.

Check out this article for more information: 5 WAYS TO BREAKOUT FROM THE “WEIGHT LOSS PLATEAU”

(Ken) #19

Here comes the “Nutty Keto Heretic” answer. Since you’ve been both lifting and doing HIIT, you should try a simple Carb refeed, say over a Weekend. Nothing massive, just flip your fat and Carb macros for two days. You might be surprised with the results.

(Adam Kirby) #20

I would be interested in any evidence that this metabolic slowdown is inevitable. Where it always happens is in the people who forcibly calorie restrict and tank their metabolism. This is why you can’t brute force nature. You may get temporary results but nature will ALWAYS have the last laugh. You have to work with your body to gently lower your set point, and I see no reason why a weight-reduced obese person could not have normal metabolic function. But go Biggest Loser and for sure you will mess yourself up.