Apnea Recovery

(J) #1

Have any of you previously been on CPAP therapy and since have its need mitigated by KETO/Carnivore dieting?

So many other things I could never have dreamt have been resolved by my dietary changes over the last four months (skin changes, joint aches & pains diminished, drastic but healthy fat loss, unbelievably rapid body comp improvement, ridiculous energy improvement, focus/clarity in thought, T2 a1c reversal, Off BP meds, etc.). This is my next test.

I have used a CPAP for many years, and it would be an understatement to say it was a life changer for better sleep. However, I am curious if -along with all the aforementioned improvements- Iā€™d be better off without it. I am just waiting for a good test time. In the mean time, I thought Iā€™d survey yā€™all and see if any of you have had success in this vein.

Thank you in advance.

(Bill) #2

I had sleep apnea but never quite had the need for a c-pap however since following keto and the resulting weight loss (along with remission of T2 diabetes) my sleep improved greatly and my snoring decreased incredibly.

(Richard M) #3

Since I went to this WOE I have no need for my c-pap machine. I lost 60 pounds. I will on occasion ask my wife if I was snoring. That will let me know if I had apnea.

(Bob M) #4

I never got tested for CPAP, but my wife said that I used to basically stop breathing and wake up, then go back to sleep. Since going keto, that hasnā€™t happened. (Iā€™m sure it did for a while, but I started on 1/1/14, so everything gets a bit ā€œfuzzyā€ to remember that long ago.)

#5

No diet can fix Apnea, you can lose a bunch of bodyfat and that can do it, but not the WOE itself. Doubt youā€™d be better off without it, everybody Apnea or not can have benefits from CPAPs, although I get the want to not be reliant on it as well.

If your bodyfat still isnā€™t in a healthy range, youā€™re not doing yourself any favors by pulling it. When it is, youā€™ll most likely reverse the Apnea, not always, but usually.

(Bob M) #6

Well, weā€™re hoping the original poster will lose 50+ pounds, or whatever it takes to also lose the CPAP. It might not be guaranteed to happen, but itā€™s possible.

(J) #7

Iā€™ve lost 70 since March 22nd. Does that count? :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

It certainly does!

#9

Damn right it does! Thatā€™s awesome!

(Robin) #10

There is no harm in finding out, is there? A week without it should let you know. Ask the doc who prescribed it if itā€™s safe to find out.

#11

I had a consultaion, which took a while to get, and went to a ā€˜sleep clinicā€™.

They gave me a CPAP machine staight away.

Iā€™ve lost 30kgs under keto, Iā€™m in my BMI healthy band for the first time for years.
I still have the CPAP machine (which I hated using btw), but they (NHS) havenā€™t asked for it back.
They are welcome to it; but because of COVID I thought might be handy to have just in case.

I donā€™t need it, and they are welcome to take it back anytime they want because I donā€™t use it.

#12

There is a good way to get an idea of whether you can do without the CPAP short experimenting by taking a few nights off. Most modern CPAP machines (often called APAP) automatically adjust airway pressure to meet changing needs during sleep. You set a range of pressure, and actual pressure floats up and down depending on a sophisticated algorithm that estimates how close you are to having a restricted airway. The better machines keep a detailed record that is accessible to users. For example, the ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet (those guys love putting words in camel case) stores information on a small memory card that can be read by a computer and displayed by an excellent public-domain program called OSCAR. If your average pressure needs are drifting downwards, your need for CPAP may be diminishing. Weight loss has helped me in many ways, but not this one. Unfortunately, many thin people have sleep apnea too.

#13

When my father got his, there was a bunch of paperwork saying when it had to go back it was worth (their made up crazy amount) and that heā€™d be charged if he didnā€™t return it. Because heā€™s a moron who REALLY needs it, he doesnā€™t use it. Been like 3yrs and they wonā€™t take it back, heā€™s even called them to tell them take it back. Thereā€™s even a SIM card in it because it was reporting back all the results, so they know it doesā€™t get used, still nothing.

Iā€™m sure itā€™s the same thing with healthcare here as NHS, they know they wonā€™t get away with giving somebody else a ā€œusedā€ one, so they just let it go. They just have to cover their backsides in case they ever change their minds later.

#14

I suspect that what the insurer (most often Medicare) really, really doesnā€™t want to see is people selling their expensive devices on the secondary market. If you could get away with that people could make good money qualifying for CPAP machines they didnā€™t have to pay for themselves and didnā€™t intend to use. There really is a secondary market with people who want a backup, or a travel machine, or to avoid the hassle of a formal sleep study and dealing with bureaucracy. People would prefer not to have a ā€œusedā€ machine, but if they can save $400, say, over list price, theyā€™ll get ā€œusedā€ to it.

#15

Hi there.

Iā€™m not sure, but there are contractors and others who have a vested interest in pumping these machines outā€¦on lease (with the NHS).

It makes sense. NO- not the primary reason, they really do want to help people.
Sometimes i just think they donā€™t want the treatment to end.

Tell me Iā€™m wrong if you want.

#16

Correct, A patient cured is a customer lost.

(Kirk Wolak) #17

I was en route to getting one. Horrible snoringā€¦
All went away with Keto.

I can breathe through my nose! Amazing what inflammation can do.

My 2 good friends us CPAP machines. one monitors his sleep very well.
When he is doing keto, he sees AMAZING numbers, and when he falls offā€¦ His sleep is rough.

His problem is that he is TOO Skinny as it is. Keto makes him feel full and he loses weight too easily. The things that help him maintain his weight and do keto actually are inflammatory for him, and throws off his sleep.

My other buddy was off of it while he was good on Ketoā€¦ But he has slid out of the WOLā€¦

So, there is HOPE you can get off of it. And I would keep it just in case you fail at some point.

(Walter Houser) #18

I was on CPAP beginning of 2018 with an A1C of 6.5 and several diabetes meds. Then I went on KETO diet and lost 30 pounds in six months, A1C dropped to 5.4, and said goodbye to the diabetes meds and the CPAP (with my doctorā€™s blessing). Then I slipped off the bandwagon and gained back 20 pounds, my sleep apnea returned, and my A1C went back up to 6.2.

Lesson learned.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

Welcome back! KCKO, brother! :+1:

(Joan Walker) #20

My profession, before I retired (and went low carb) was as a Respiratory Therapist and I specialized in sleep medicine for more than 10 years so I feel qualified to comment.
Before I lost 90 lb and got my T2D under control with Keto I basically couldnā€™t function without my CPAP. I mean, I fell asleep at red lights! once I got on CPAP I started to function normally.
Again, I am an RT so I have watched my pressure needs closely and my AHI (apnea hypopnea index - apneas and hypopnias (lower than OK breathing volume) combined) is now always under 5 (1-5 totally normal, 6-10 donā€™t treat but watch, over 10, probably treat).
I am slowly weaning myself off (I sleep better with it, probably because I am so used to it - although it could be the airflow - I had asthma as a child). but now when I travel, I donā€™t bother to bring it and I am fine.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IMHO it is completely do-able to get off CPAP once you lose the weight needed - I really donā€™t think it was the KETO, I think it was the weight loss. Statistically if you have a neck circumference of 17+ you probably need CPAP. anyway, hope this helps.
If you are on CPAP my suggestion is you ask your doc (or just go online to one of the stores that will give you a doc to help choose / prescribe CPAPs) and get an AUTOTITRATING CPAP. this will follow your breathing and adjust the pressures as you need - as you lose weight, youā€™ll probably need less. Again, I am not your RT or your doctor, so make sure you talk to someone. I know what I am doing with mine, so I feel confident in weaning myself. I wouldnā€™t want anyone else to do it without knowing what they were doing and knowing how to get into the machine to see how you are breathing (your AHI).
another hint? get a cradling neck pillow (I use DOZAGE) so your head is tilted correctly - helps a lot.
good luck!