Anyone watch “Diet Fiction”?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

The most popular current diet fad is vege/vegan. Where are the long term studies on it? No human society has ever, in 2.5 million years eaten anything even close to what these people advocate. And those that come closest show overwhelming evidence of malnourishment and all the so-called ‘modern diseases’ that result from eating primarily carb based diets.

(Bunny) #4

That may be true e.g. wheat germ[1] & wild rice[2] (not mixed with domesticated rice)?

I imagine that most of the veggies we eat today are human modified and nothing close to being wild or in its original state like the mustard plant (can prevent and kill prostate cancers?). The mustard plant is the original mitochondria of most veggies you buy at the grocery store (they are man made and it takes a maximum of ten years to make something called a broccoli from a mustard plant and in addition to that crossed with the DNA of fish thanks to Monsanto?)…lol :rofl::joy::rofl::joy:

I think some plants in their natural or original form once had the characteristics of all the essential amino acids and closer in nutritional value to eating meat?

What a lot Vegans don’t know or are aware of is a lot of vegan foods are made with the bone ash of incinerated animal bones?


[1] ”…In my studies I came across some interesting information about wheat germ. Not only is wheat germ a substantial source of 8 essential amino acids (isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine) but it is also a great source of 10 other amino acids. When combined with nuts or seeds, wheat germ becomes a great and whole source of protein for your body. …More

[2] ”…Though it’s not a rich protein source, wild rice is considered a complete protein, meaning it contains all nine essential amino acids. …More

(Bunny) #5

As much as I like Dr. Eades he is just flat out wrong just like believing a Paleo era actually existed is equivalent to believing in the tooth fairy, there is no science or data to support such a hypothesis (not even in the slightest to create a hint) and because it was a fictitious idea created in some ones head, not something that ever took place in reality.

It is amazing how human beings can take fairytales and expand them into reality!

Cultivation of grains seems to be the culprit when you DON’T ferment (vinegar from sugar/fructose?) it (that’s when you start seeing tooth decay in early humans)!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

@atomicspacebunny Evidence and data for your contra, please. The video I linked shows very convincing evidence that the shift to farming resulted in many problems. What exactly would you prefer to call the 2.5 million years that preceded the agricultural revolution? Paleolithic sounds accurate. As for fermentation: first mead, then wine, then barley. Do you have a timeline for vinegar? Eades presents a lot of evidence that eating grains was the beginning of all the problems we now call ‘modern’ metabolic diseases (not just tooth decay).

(Bunny) #7

Yes that is true but not in the context in which he presents it!

Eade’s has this idea in his head (from the books he reads, he is an avid book worm like me) that it comes from carbs, grain is a type of carb, that does not thus infer all carbs are bad?

If everybody starts believing that they could damage their health because it becomes a case of he said she said not empirical cross-validated science[1]?

Additionally when you start seeing tooth decay that’s when you start seeing metabolic diseases!


[1] What can you prove? “…Proofs are for mathematics, not science. (**) Something can be more (or less) likely to be true, but to say something is proven essentially says that there is 100% certainty in the assertion. That’s not how science works. There is no absolute truth in science. …” - Dr. Peter Attia

[2] Pickle History Time-Line (Fermentation & Vinegar; some recorded history)

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

@atomicspacebunny Unfortunately, we start to see evidence of a lot of really bad metabolic diseases with the introduction of grain agriculture and subsequently, that never existed before as best we can tell from the anthropologic evidence. Eades didn’t make this up. This due primarily to insulin issues as we are currently discussing here. Recent research confirms it with our better understanding of human metabolism and our evolution as a species adapted to nutrient dense food, aka fat and meat. This is not a myth.

It is also not a myth that there is no essential carbohydrate. That they are 100% optional since gluconeogenesis can synthesis every drop of glucose we need. That they can, and for a majority of humans do, cause up to the full spectrum of metabolic problems. In any quantity more than miniscule and incidental, where is the so-called ‘good carb’?

(Bunny) #9

And what your discussing in those paragraphs are the differences between a person who is not metabolically fit and a person who is, to say there is only ONE causation (what is available to eat and a persons state of health?) and not other correlations is an assumption?

I sincerely want to believe all carbs are bad and pre-historic humans only ate meat but that would be just wishful thinking on my part!

One thing you can look at and that is the exclusive production of amylase in the salivary glands (why not lipase and protease too?), that tells me we were indeed intended to eat carbohydrates? We are true omnivores and not carnivores! A carnivores chemical physiology is very acidic and specifically intended to digest raw meat, our physiology is more alkaline (why we get acid reflux) than acidic, that’s why we live longer! Eating too much meat in one meal or constantly will make your entire body very acidic thus shortening your life span! Ever wonder why carnivores (e.g. dogs, cats) do not live that long?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

Speaking of fermentation… My contention is that ethanol was discovered by a bold and probably fool-hearty paleo ancestor who dipped his cupped hand into an abandoned honey tree to taste the stagnant liquid pooled inside. Soon enough our ancestors learned how to make the stuff just by leaving watered down honey sitting out exposed to fresh air. Maybe by accident and maybe by “I wonder what would happen if…”

Fermentation of wild grapes probably followed not long afterwards. But beer! Now that’s a different matter. Making beer is more complex than letting honey and grape/fruit juice sit out exposed to the air. Maybe some enterprising housewife (and I suspect it was a woman who made the discovery - the Sumerian goddess of beer was Anana) decided to sprout barley as a way to make the hard grains more chewable, rather than just grind them and add water to make a paste or soup. Probably by accident some of the sprouted barley got left in a pot or cup of water for a few days and began to ferment. Later someone discovered that if you roasted the sprouted barley just enough to burn off the green sprouts, it tasted even better!

Until Louis Pasteur discovered yeast in the 19th century, no one had any idea of how ethanol existed. How it got into mead, wine or beer. It was just magic. Of course, when you depend upon wild yeasts floating around on currents of air to innoculate your nascent brew, you face a big risk that something else floating around will get to it first. That something else was usually vinegar bacteria. Although it might sometimes be a deadly bacterium instead. So there were casualties, to be sure.

Yes, vinegar has been around as long as making ethanol. I suppose sooner or later someone would decide to drink the ‘batch that went bad’. Nothing all that bad happened as a result and so you just drank it so it didn’t go to waste.

That’s my story.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

Well, here’s the inconvenient thing. During the 2.5-3 million years the human species was adapting to eating nutrient dense fat and meat primarily (I never said exclusively) something called the Pleistocene occurred. We no longer had the gut of our gorilla and chimpanzee relatives. Their huge guts were necessary to extract nutrients from what plants were available. Our ancestors could not extract nutrients from virtually all Pleistocene flora simply because it was 90+% cellulose. There were a few exceptions limited by location and season. None the less, they were a very small part of the overall diet.

Because of our Primate ancestry we retain the ability to digest/metabolize simple carbs. By that I mean carbohydrates less complex than cellulose. But they remain nutrient dilute and cause all sorts of metabolic disease if consumed in more than incidental and miniscule quantity.

Too often in the discussion of what exactly our ancestors ate, the Pleistocene gets ignored. People just kind of assume that all the nice fruits and veggies we have now were around then. They were not. The world wide climate averaged 20 degrees Centigrade colder than now - for the better part of 2.5 million years! Even the tropics were significantly colder. The plants that were domesticated and cultivated starting with the agricultural revolution, were nothing like what they are now. Take a look at the root of Queen Anne’s Lace. That’s a Pleistocene ‘carrot’.

Metabolic Flexibility - Get Real
(Bunny) #12

I’m going to get real esoteric here;

Human beings have always been the same physiologically and not much different from our antediluvian counterparts with one minor deviation in that our bones were thicker (with no drastic changes in height) and we lived longer up to 900 years and that has to do with changes in atmospheric pressure (was twice what it is now), the earths crystalline shield (ocean water; protects humans from cosmic radiation increasing the human life span) and a stronger electromagnetic field that’s no longer their but is slowly coming back (i.e. global warming, melting ice shelfs on the polar regions).

A very very long time ago giant meteorites hit the earth knocking it off its axis busting a hole in the crystalline shield so we basically live on a scorched planet for now!

You can create almost magical compounds and substances under such conditions which goes into the lore of magik! (another realm of physics?)

Realistic about carbs - inspiration

Um, wat?

image image image

(Bunny) #14

And my point is just about as ridiculous as believing we evolved from monkeys? Thank you for proving (illustrating) my point was waiting for that?


Evolutionary Biology? Say what?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

‘Belief’ is religion. Drawing the best conclusion from the available evidence is science.

Evidence of Evolution

Scientists have discovered a wealth of evidence concerning human evolution, and this evidence comes in many forms. Thousands of human fossils enable researchers and students to study the changes that occurred in brain and body size, locomotion, diet, and other aspects regarding the way of life of early human species over the past 6 million years. Millions of stone tools, figurines and paintings, footprints, and other traces of human behavior in the prehistoric record tell about where and how early humans lived and when certain technological innovations were invented. Study of human genetics show how closely related we are to other primates – in fact, how connected we are with all other organisms – and can indicate the prehistoric migrations of our species, Homo sapiens, all over the world. Advances in the dating of fossils and artifacts help determine the age of those remains, which contributes to the big picture of when different milestones in becoming human evolved.

While the genetic difference between individual humans today is minuscule – about 0.1%, on average – study of the same aspects of the chimpanzee genome indicates a difference of about 1.2%. The bonobo ( Pan paniscus ), which is the close cousin of chimpanzees ( Pan troglodytes ), differs from humans to the same degree. The DNA difference with gorillas, another of the African apes, is about 1.6%. Most importantly, chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans all show this same amount of difference from gorillas. A difference of 3.1% distinguishes us and the African apes from the Asian great ape, the orangutan. How do the monkeys stack up? All of the great apes and humans differ from rhesus monkeys, for example, by about 7% in their DNA.

While people used to think that there was a single line of human species, with one evolving after the other in an inevitable march towards modern humans, we now know this is not the case. Like most other mammals, we are part of a large and diverse family tree. Fossil discoveries show that the human family tree has many more branches and deeper roots than we knew about even a couple of decades ago. In fact, the number of branches our evolutionary tree, and also the length of time, has nearly doubled since the famed ‘Lucy’ fossil skeleton was discovered in 1974!

The Evolution of Primates

Great ape genetic diversity and population history

(bulkbiker) #16

Think you have been over binging on Dr Berg… were they aliens too?

(bulkbiker) #17

A hangover from our ape past maybe?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #18

My contention as well. Our limited ability to utilize glucose is part of our primate herbivore ancestry.

(Bunny) #19

Or an individuals limited ability to utilize a higher carbohydrate (glucose) diet depending on skeletal muscle volume because they are going to oxidize it before it even has a chance to get stored as fat and only if you over-eat carbohydrates especially in the form of grain if not fermented outside the body rather than in the gut and the other could be too much fruit from agriculture? Which may some what explain the tooth decay?

If you were eating fermented foods in ancient post-agricultural times you would be inducing ketosis during certain phases of sleep! The type of acids in fermented substances (specifically acetoacetate) can be utilized by human mitochondria for energy!

For example when I use Apple Cider Vinegar I have more energy than I know what to do with, it seems like I can run/jog forever when using it? (put a little ACV in my water bottle with a pinch of Himalayan sea salt and I feel like a human race car)


[1] Hence, fermentation brought about a significant change in the total soluble sugars, reducing sugars, non-reducing sugars and starch content of pearl millet flour. Fermented grains had a lower amount of starch and a higher content of soluble and reducing sugars than that of the unprocessed grains. …More

[2] “…The major simple carbohydrates or sugars are glucose, maltose, fructose, and sucrose which come from plants. Lactose is found in milk. We generally think of grains (Bread & Cereal group) as the only source of carbohydrates. …More

(Edith) #20

I’m not sure that’s a valid point. The herbivorous cow, for example, lives 15-20 years, pet rabbits eight years. Omnivorous pigs also 15-20 years. The bowhead whale can live to be 200 years old. This animal is carnivorous living on zooplankton. If your point was valid, why wouldn’t cows or pigs have longer lifespans since they don’t eat exclusively meat? Why does a bowhead whale live so long?

Finally, chimpanzees live to be about 40. They eat way more of a vegetarian diet than we do. Why don’t they live as long as we do?

(Bunny) #21

Because animals don’t have our type of versatile mitochondria except maybe tortoises?

Could also be the loss of or the ability to produce proteolytic enzymes (protease) in animals (specifically carnivores) as they age (or causes rapid metabolic shift down) that decreases their longevity or the ability to digest (break down) raw proteins?

Same goes for amylase and lipase (digestive enzymes)!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #22

I refer to our ability to utilize glucose and our ability to extract it from carbs at all. We evolved from herbivorous ancestors and retain a much reduced ability to metabolize carbs because we’ve lost the guts to do so. We gave up big guts to get big brains. I think we still utilize glucose primarily to feed the brain when necessary via gluconeogenesis, but the better fuel are ketones.