Anyone taking an SGLT2 inhibitor (like Jardiance) and measuring ketones?

(Bob M) #1

I have been made to take an SGLT2 inhibitor (like Jardiance). They are switching me off one medication, which is good, but I’m taking Jardiance not for diabetes but for the heart effects. This is what one study says about these drugs:

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See here:

These are supposed to increase ketones.

My problem? My ketones don’t seem to be any higher. I’m still getting 0.3 mmol/l in the morning (blood ketones). I forget to take these at other times, though. So maybe those times would have higher ketones.

If you’re taking an SGLT2 inhibitor and also taking your ketone levels, are you getting ketone levels that are higher than before you started taking the drug?

#2

Hi Bob has Ben Bikman talked about SGLT2 inhibitors? I think I just heard him interviewed by Dr Ford Brewer about the positive cardiac side effects for people being treated with them for Type 2 diabetes.

#3

Ahhhhh, one of the Flozins! Those are super popular with the longevity and biohacker crowd that wants to just shy of erase a bad meal from happening. Dr Sandra Kaufmann has a pill/drug for every situation on planet earth for optimization. At first I thought she pushed it a little, but that’s biohacking!

(Bob M) #4

That’s the problem with these drugs: they are tested on high carb folks. When they started me on these, they gave me the “official” pack, which included a detailed analysis of all the studies that were done. I think was for the doctor, but I read it.

They did help with heart failure (what I have, for the last 12+ years now), but again it was high carb folks that were most likely who these were being given to.

I’ve heard Ben Bikman and Dom D’Agostino talk about them. One theory is that they increase ketones, which leads to better heart outcomes. But I’m not really getting that, at least not for my morning ketone levels.

So, I’m wondering if they do something else? Or maybe because blood sugar itself is lowered (supposedly – have seen a small decrease in morning blood sugar, and sometimes quite low evening blood sugar – quite low for me), that’s really the benefit? Maybe that causes your heart to use more ketones? Or maybe something else?

(Central Florida Bob ) #5

Just an off the wall thought, Bob.

Is it possible they produce a different ketone than the one being tested for? I think we normally produce beta hydroxybutyrate, but maybe the Jardiance causes a different compound to be formed and the testers don’t respond to that one?

(Bob M) #6

That’s possible. I’m not sure. Even BHB has isomers, I think L and D?, and the machines only test one of them. I remember reading about - or possibly listening to a podcast - where some of the exogenous salts or whatever they are have the isomer the machines can’t test. So, you didn’t really know what your ketone levels were if you were taking the exo ketones.

What I have been finding is that if I take my 2 tsp of allulose sometimes with milk (and other stuff), I get super tired. I’m never tired on keto. I’m wondering if the combination of allulose, which is supposed to lower blood sugar, and Jardiance, which is also supposed to lower blood sugar, are making my blood sugar go too low?

It’s really too bad the Stelo CGM I tried had such a high failure rate. 2 of 4 went bad after a few days. It’s so hard to test blood sugar (or ketones) with pin pricks.

I’m wondering if what’s happening is the Jardiance lowers blood sugar or possibly reduces the heart’s ability to use blood sugar, which then means the heart more receptive to ketones? And for high carb folks (and possibly keto folks too, though I don’t see it that well), Jardiance increases/causes ketones (different from BHB?) and that makes the heart perform better?

Unfortunately, a simple of search of “jardiance ketones” isn’t helpful. Too many warnings about ketoacidosis. I’ll have to look into it more, but I don’t have time today.

(Omar) #7

Jardiance gives me mild depression.

Tried and stopped several times. But not everyone body react the same. My brother takes it, and he did not have my side effects,

(Kirk Wolak) #8

Bob,
I didn’t know you were dealing with heart disease. Giving that I don’t know if it is Plaque or Ejection Fraction. I can say that after my brothers CVE, I flew him to Florida to see Dr.Sears, and Sears took him off of his Statin, told him what to tell the cardiologist back home (my brother was already complaining of muscle weakness and bruising). BUT he put my brother on HIIT training. Starting slow. He explained “The heart is a muscle. You train it in BURSTS… LONG Cardio will thin out your heart muscle…”

My brother did quite well with that until he got the Jab… He has myocarditis, blood clotting, and his ejection fraction is dropping. At least his cardiologist told him to NEVER take one of the jabs again (it would likely kill him)!!! Wow.

Anyways. Hope you find something in that. About 3 years after his CVE, his cardiologist told him that he could barely HEAR the spot where he knew the damage was and to keep doing whatever he was doing…