Anyone here diabetic?


#1

Hi,
My husband has been diagnosed with diabetes and has been advised he should eat no more than 30g carbs per meal and one 15g snack per day. This is a lot less carbs than he had previously been consuming. We are members of the NDSS and have been looking at their forum. I have been posting and getting some really good information from members but the question I have been asking is:

Should diabetics consume carbs with every meal and does it have to be the same amount each meal?

The way the diabetes educator explained to us is that my husband should be eating all these carbs every day and in the beginning we stuck to that.
the CSIRO diet recommends no more than 50g carbs per day lean protein and healthy fats
Other recommendations are high fat low carb.

I know this is the Ketogenic forum, but I just wondered if anyone on here who is or has been diabetic could give me some information on their experience.

I know my husband won’t cope with a Keto diet and as soon as the Keto flu sets in he will give up.

Thanks for reading


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Welcome to the forums! The Two Keto Dudes, who founded these forums, are both Type II diabetics, who reversed their diabetes by eating a ketogenic diet.

To answer your question, a diabetic is best off when eating as little carbohydrate as possible. This is true whether the diabetic is Type I or Type II

The former is an incurable autoimmune disease, in which the pancreas is damaged too badly to produce insulin. Fortunately, since the discovery of insulin, Type I diabetics no longer need to die a very uncomfortable death. Since too much insulin can damage the body, it is better for a Type I diabetic to eat as little carbohydrate as possible, since this keeps glucose under control with a minimal dose of insulin. It also avoids the difficulty of trying to balance insulin and carb intake, which can be very tricky.

The latter is a condition that is largely caused by diet. It can be treated by a low-carb ketogenic diet, and many people have actually reversed their Type II diabetes by such a way of eating (including, as I mentioned, the Dudes, Carl and Richard). Low-carb eating reduces the burden on the liver and pancreas, which can eventually heal.

While there are essential fats and essential amino acids, which we must get every day or we will sicken and die, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Many people have gone carb-free for over a decade, in some cases, with no discernible ill effects.

The reason diabetes educators encourage their Type I patients to eat carbohydrate is because of a fear that they will overdose on insulin and go into hypoglycaemic shock. The standard wisdom has it that it is easier for patients to eat some carbohydrate and try to balance it with insulin. As Dr. Gary Fettke, Dr. Troy Stapleton, and others have pointed out, however, this strategy actually causes more problems than it solves. A Type I patient who eats minimal carbohydrate needs only the daily insulin dose, and can usually dispense with the bolus doses. CSIRO has seen the light as a result of Dr. Fettke’s experience of being censured and then receiving an official apology from the Minister of Health, and so their recommendation of a 50g limit is in line with the recommendations of various researchers into the ketogenic diet.

The reason for increasing fat intake is to provide calories that are no longer coming in the form of carbohydrate. Fat intake has almost no effect on insulin secretion in healthy people, other than the minimum needed to sustain life, so can be ignored by Type I patients. The daily dose will cover it. A diet of minimal carbohydrate, a reasonable amount of protein, and enough fat to assuage hunger pangs will yield stable glucose levels that fluctuate within a small range, and very little need for bolus insulin.

Keto “flu” is actually a deficiency of sodium, that happens on a keto diet for complicated reasons that I won’t go into (this is already a long post). So just make sure that your husband gets 4-6 grams of sodium a day, which is 10-15 grams of table salt, inclusive of salt already in the food. I find that I get headaches and constipation if I eat too little salt, and if I get too much, it starts to taste really nasty. As long as I avoid extremes, I’m fine.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #3

For more information, the Type I Grit Facebook group (UK-based) is a good, reliable source. The LCDU (Low Carb Down Under) YouTube channel also has some excellent lectures by Dr. Mark Stapleton and Dr. Jessica Turton that are well worth watching.


(Pat) #4

Thank you that is very helpful. I’ll print your reply and let my husband read it.
One person on the diabetes forum said she decided to do the LCHF and not tell her dr. Then when he was pleased with her results she told her doctor what she’d been doing. The doctor told her he couldn’t support that because it wasn’t the government guidelines but said it was up to her if she wanted to do LCHF.

Thank you


(Pat) #5

Thank you


#6

Type 2 diabetic here.

Before keto, I had an A1c of 7.3 while using both insulin and metformin. Since starting keto nearly 5 years ago, I no longer use T2D medications and my A1c has been as low as 4.8 without them. I was able to stop insulin immediately and weaned off the metformin months later.

Part of the problem is that too many medical professionals don’t really know all that much about nutrition, or were simply taught things that were incorrect (and then in defense, double down on that knowledge),


For example, this dogma of the medical community, common at the time, came from an Iowa State University food sciences web page less than a decade ago:

“The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day. However, this level is recommended only to support the central nervous system, red blood cell production, and tissues dependent on glucose; it does not support any physical activity.”

If 130 grams of carbohydrates per day were necessary for survival, a lot of us using keto should have been dead long ago.

I believe that “130 grams per day” is also where the “45 grams per meal” rule came from.


#7

If he isn’t taking insulin, metformin, or blood pressure medications, then he should probably start keto immediately. With that being said, the best way for him to succeed is with support. Are you currently keto? You can embark on the journey with him if not. If yes, then you can help him navigate.

The keto flu is carb detoxification, dumping glycogen. Some get it, others don’t. Some have it a few days, some a week. It’s manageable and can be mitigated with many lessons learned from others who have been on the journey.

Type 2 diabetes is most likely a symptom or effect of persistent and prolonged hyperinsulinemia. The best way to remediate the root cause is to bring insulin down. Keep it low consistently. Carbohydrates drive insulin. Remove carbs and one’s body can begin the process of fixing a dysregulated system.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

(Pat) #9

He is taking blood pressure medication and cholesterol medication. He didn’t want diabetes medication at first so as to see if he can control it with diet. Now he is having up to 105g per day. Previously he would have up to 200g in one day sometimes more.
I have been on and off with Keto but I don’t tend to lose the weight so I just keep low carb as much as I can.


(Pat) #10

I have always wanted my husband to cut down on the carbs. We would eat different food at mealtimes unless we were having something that I liked. But this hasn’t always been the case as when the kids were little we’d all have the same. It’s since the kids have left home and I preferred different to what he had.


(bulkbiker) #11

Keto and some intermittent fasting means I am no longer T2.
Also no longer morbidly obese nor suffering from
Sleep Apnea
High Blood Pressure
Acid reflux
Peeing every 5 minutes
Breathless after walking 100m

Get your husband to join us here advice is always better received first hand and it will be better for your relationship!


(Pat) #12

thank you


#13

Half the people here were diabetic at one point, as you’re aware your asking a very biased bunch for advise right now!

30g per meal is pretty low by any normal standard and without question would help your husband bring his A1C back into normal range. Keto flu is almost optional, but if he’s not going to like eating that way than don’t waste your time, it’s simply not needed to fix his issue, but a dietary change clearly is!

Not all carbs are created equal, no different than fats. Oatmeal and Sweet Potatoes aren’t the same as Chocolate chip cookies and potato chips. That’s the kind of stuff he’s going to need to cope with. The wrong thing in small amounts can be worse than large amounts of good things. He’s going to need to start tracking what he eats, guessing doesn’t work, people are terrible at it.

He’s going to need to look at what “dieting” looks like with more carbs, vs near no carbs. If he wasn’t a chicken breast, some sweet potato and maybe some green beans with little to no butter on anything, and low salt that’s one thing. Or maybe a baked chicken or sausage thing covered and cheese onions and broccoli? I know what I’d want!

Small bowl of cereal, piece of whole wheat toast and maybe a small handful of fruit? Or a western omelette with cheese bacon and sausage? Can’t mix and match the two worlds though! That one he’d need to accept.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

That figure of 130 g/day is derived ultimately from the work of George Cahill, who believed that the brain required it. This, despite an experiment he did on some of his fasting subjects, in which he used a hyperinsulinaemic glycaemic clamp to drive down their glucose to levels that should have caused coma or death, but which left them unfazed, because their ketones were more than adequate to feed their brains.

Prof. Benjamin Bikman has stated in several lectures that he doubts the brain actually needs any glucose at all, if ketones are available to feed it.

Whatever the case, we do know that the body is perfectly capable of manufacturing enough glucose to support its needs, even in the total absence of dietary carbohydrate.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #15

Dr. Phinney says it is, rather, lack of sodium, because the kidneys excrete sodium somewhat faster in the absence of insulin. I heard this from him in several YouTube lectures before I went keto, so I worked to keep up my salt intake and never experienced the so-called keto “flu.”


(Chris) #16

I’ve been type 2 prediabetic (and now recently, diabetic) for years. A few years ago, I did keto + intermittent fasting for the first time. The first keto flu was awful because I didn’t really know what to expect. Day 1 was easy. Days 2 - 4 were rough. But I woke up on Day 5 and felt an amazing sense of peaceful energy. His results may vary, but induction into ketosis is temporary.

The effects went away as soon as I returned to eating pizza and sweets all day a few months later. A lot of the difficulty is psychological: your body is expecting those carbs and so your gut makes that very clear to your brain.

But your brain can be retrained, and the quality of hunger you have will change. Less than 20g of carbs/day is basically a slice of bread. At first I ate that religiously. Then I found I just didn’t care. As others have said, T2D is a disease of diet and its resolution is under our control. The hard part is making the choice and sticking to it, but I think the benefits will be apparent over time.


(Pat) #17

Yes I agree and I’m working on that


(Bob M) #18

They really are the same.

https://phcuk.org/sugar/

Doesn’t have sweet potatoes, but close enough:

I used to eat oatmeal or other hot cereals for every breakfast. STARVING after about 20 minutes.


#19

Like many things, what exists on paper, and what happens in real life aren’t the same… For some they may, for many they don’t. I have zero issues with starchy carbs, sugary ones and you better have an impressive lock on the cabinets.

The GI scale has it’s issues, how insulin sensitive you are has the most to do with it. If you’re insulin sensitive it takes very little to do the job. If you’re not and your body dumps 5x what’s needed, there’s way more blowback. Once I fixed my resistance issues I stopped giving the GI chart it’s god like power over what I ate.


(Pat) #20

Thank you everyone for your replies, your advice and all the information is most helpful. I printed out and my husband has read them and also found them helpful and interesting. It’s half the battle when other’s experiences and positive results can be seen. Thank you