Any sedentary Men in here around 5'10 160lbs? What is your protein intake?


(Mike D) #1

My protein intake is around 50g a day. I am pretty sedentary and do not exercise due to rheumatoid arthritis. My calories total per day are between 1,200-1,400. I still have 15 lbs I need to loose, then I can up my calories a bit for maintenance. Until that last 15lbs is lost I am being very strict with myself and counting everything.

I was thinking of upping my protein a bit, but am worried it might kick me out of ketosis. Should I stay at 50g a day or should I up it some? Keep in mind I am sedentary, so am looking for advice based on a sedentary lifestyle with almost no exercise. Thanks


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

How much protein we need is linked to our lean body mass. At 160 lbs. with 15 to shed, let’s estimate your lean mass around 130 lbs. or 59 kg. That means you want 59 to 118 g of protein a day, or 236-472 g (8-16 oz.) of meat a day. Fifty grams of protein is probably not really enough for you.

May I ask your reason for restricting your caloric intake? Fourteen hundred calories is starvation level. Intentional short rations signals to the body that there is a famine going on, and it reduces our metabolic rate and holds on to our fat store to get us through. It’s one thing to eat to satiety, it’s quite another to deliberately put our body into famine mode.

A number of studies in the past decade have shown that exercise has very little ability to cause fat loss. It has many other beneficial effects on the body, but fat loss is not one of them. I myself am a couch potato of no little prowess, and I lost 80 lbs./36 kg on keto with absolutely no effort on my part. Nor did I have to count calories, either. I followed the advice of Dr. Stephen Phinney to eat to satiety and the weight came off on its own. I did find my appetite dropping after the first few weeks, but I did not eat less intentionally, I just followed my body’s cues.


(Mike D) #3

“May I ask your reason for restricting your caloric intake?”

There are a lot of reasons. First my main goal was to try to improve my Rheumatoid Arthritis and everywhere I looked the advice was that autophagy is the way to do this and according to the “experts” total calorie restriction was the way to do this.

Second, when I first started I was impatient to loose the weight. I was obese, had fatty liver disease, bad cholesterol and triglyceride levels. Now that I have lost 45lbs and have 15 left to go I still feel impatient. I had some diet setbacks due to surgery that made me loose 3 weeks of progress, so my nose is pressed to the grindstone now.

Third, I am new to this as I am a novice at the Keto lifestyle. We live in a day and age where it is really difficult to find good reliable information. Everyone claims to be an expert now days, but nobody agrees on anything. I am trying to do the best I can to navigate truth from falshood, but everyone has so much data to back up their claims it is really difficult to find the “right way”. I think after a few years on Keto I may have a better idea of what works for my body, but at this point I am just trying to wade through all the opinions of everyone to try to find a nugget of truth. Objective truth is a huge problem in todays internet connected society and it is really incredibly difficult to find the single objective truth, when everybody asserts their opinion is the only truth, yet hardly anyone agrees. So basically, in a nutshell, I have no idea what I am doing and do not know if my “experts” are real or not.

What I can tell you for sure is this. I have followed my body measurements carefully. I based my protein on my muscle weight. I put my protein as low as I could to maintain muscle mass. So far I have gained 5lbs of muscle and at no point did I loose muscle. So I assumed as long as my muscle was not lost that I did not need more protein. This may not be accurate, but it seemed like the best metric to judge my protein by.

I am extremely sedentary due to chronic pain. I do not think other people realize just how few calories I expend in a day. I spend most of my day sitting down and not moving much. When your calorie expenditure is that low it is very easy for “normal” people to overestimate my calorie requirement. Also, I take medications that make weight loss VERY difficult.

When I get up past 1,500 cal a day my weight loss slows to a crawl. Around 1,600 a day and the weight loss stops.

I am just trying to figure all this out as I go and make small changes here and there. I have 10%bf left to loose and am at the end of my weight loss race. It has taken me 6 months to loose 45lbs and I just want to get this over with. Once, I can enter maintenace mode I think getting my nutrients fine tuned will be a lot easier, but this weight loss journey from obesity has been confusing and difficult to navigate with all the “experts” disagreeing with each other. Honestly, I have heard so many differing opinions that at this point I find it impossible to trust pretty much anybody anymore.

Im a noob, just trying to figure it out as I go. I am open to suggestions and am not locked into any one type of philosophy. If someone mentions something that sounds reasonable I will try it and just judge it by my body measurements.

It does sound like my protein is way to low though. I will try to up it for a couple weeks and see how things go.


#4

I am a short woman but when I am sedentary, I eat about 130-170g protein on average…?
I need it for satiation and my food has much protein, I can’t go and eat a bunch of fat or something. Some of my meals have 170g protein…
I am on a mission to minimize my protein intake, I take it seriously but I just can’t go lower. My body is stubborn.

50g is low! Even my (active, the height and weight is almost as yours) SO eats more than that! And he eats a moderate amount, way less than me.

IDK why you are worried about ketosis when you could have worried about muscle loss, 50g is tiny! (I don’t say it’s impossible to keep your muscles with it but it seems risky…)
And many of us never experienced getting out of ketosis due to eating 100-150g protein a day… Or more, a few people here eat way more than I :slight_smile:


#5

I try to fast (I mean, I get hungry too early but I don’t give up) for autophagy. I always have read that is the way, not eating at all for a while… Even if it could bring down drastically my average energy intake (it wouldn’t), it’s much better than eating too little day to day.

But you wrote you have a low energy need and maybe it’s still normal and not a slowed one…? I am used to my SO needing 2800 kcal a day (he is active though) and I am aware energy need is very, very individual, it can’t be calculated from stats. If it would be 1000 kcal, I would say it’s a problem and you need to heal your metabolism but 1600 may be some extreme case of a low natural energy need for a very sedentary one…? Unusual for sure!

Wow. Well I have heard about people gaining muscle at 1g/kg for LBM too (with proper workouts), it’s just rare. But indeed, there is a personal factor. I like safety so I aim for 2g/kg, I just can’t go that low often. I usually advice 1-2g/kg but considering 1.5-2 better - as long as one doesn’t have some good reason to avoid that.

Good luck, I don’t think I can say more at this point. I still don’t think you should fear adding a tiny bit more protein :slight_smile:


(KM) #6

Have you ever considered a longer fast, maybe 2-3 days? In the past I’ve found it helpful for boosting autophagy and getting weight loss going again. Seems to shake things up a bit.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

Fasting will stimulate autophagy better than caloric restriction. The body responds differently to complete lack of food. Moreover, the metabolic state induced by a ketogenic diet is very similar to that induced by fasting, except for the lack of food.

Well, fat loss takes the time it takes. If you look at the stories of people who lost large amounts of fat on a ketogenic diet, you will notice that the first 100 lbs. came off much faster than the last 10. And restricting calories only takes us so far, since the body responds to short rations by greatly slowing non-essential processes (hair, nails, the reproductive system) and lowering the basal metabolic rate until the emergency is over. By contrast, give your body enough food, and it will speed up the metabolism and find things to do with the extra energy. And it will be a lot more willing to part with its excess fat reserves.

We’ve all had to cope with that. Nutrition science is really bad, partly because it’s so difficult and expensive to do right. Also, medicine is a lot more authority-based than harder sciences, such as physics, so once an idea becomes entrenched, it is very hard to dislodge. And even in physics, as Max Planck observed, “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

The key to a ketogenic diet is lowering insulin by greatly restricting carbohydrate intake. Insulin is the major hormone involved in causing the body to store fat, and carbohydrate in the diet causes the greatest insulin response. This makes sense because carbohydrate is basically glucose, and excess glucose in the blood is highly damaging. Unfortunately, over time, so is the elevated insulin required to deal with a high-carb diet.

Protein is protein. We need a certain amount of it daily, and some people need more than others. In the absence of carbohydrate, the insulin response is minimal, or rather, the insulin response is matched by a corresponding glucagon response, so the body remains in a ketotic state.

Fat is the source of the body’s energy on a ketogenic diet, and the insulin response to it is negligible, so it is a safe source of energy, not to mention the fact that it can be metabolised without the damaging oxidative stress of glucose. It is also more energy dense than carbohydrate so it takes far less to provide the same amount of energy.

So to be sure we are getting enough energy, we control carbohydrate, prioritise protein, and fill in with fat. Eating to satiety is very different from eating to a caloric target, for the reasons already mentioned. Many forum members have reported that as long as they intentionally restricted calories, they did not shed fat. Their fat loss began only when they started eating more, not less. So listen to your body, and give it what it needs.

Basically, a ketogenic diet is practically the reverse of what the U.S. government has been telling us to eat since the early 1980’s. Don’t fear fat; fear carbohydrate instead. Sugar, pasta, grains, and starches are not health foods, they are fattening. Eat more meat. Cholesterol is too important to the body to be the cause of cardiovascular disease. LDL levels may be markers of disease, but not the root cause, and manipulating a marker has no effect on the actual disease.


(Michael) #8

I would be concerned about slowing your metabolism down greatly on your calorie restricted diet. Fasting longer with larger food intakes would seem prudent. I would be concerned that you have already slowed your metabolism down too much already actually. I eat 3000 calories to maintain weight at 61 kg. I have actively promoted a fast metabolism via fasting over calorie restriction. While I am more active than you, as many know, exercise is not great for losing weight, although it is healthy. I do not think my macros would change too much if I was also sedentary.


#9

My SO’s energy need seriously changes according to his activity. As he eats the same, no matter his activity (except when skipping dinner and staying hungry all evening - very effective fat-loss for him but it’s not pleasant), it’s his activity that decides how/if his weight changes. (IDK how he can eat the same calories every day, mine easily goes up and down 1000 kcal from day to day… I only sometimes track him but yep, he has the skill at being extremely consistent.)

Of course not everyone is like him, far from it but it is a thing too. Activity matters very much for some people becoming/staying slim.


(Mike D) #10

Ok, I will add about 300 extra calories of protein per day. That should give me around 70g a day and will bring me up to 1,500 calories. I will watch my body measurements for the next 2 weeks and if the changes are all positive I will add another 20g on top of that… I think my fat intake is good, so will not do anything with that and will just add calories in the form of protein. I suspect in the grand scheme of things my protein is most likely my only deficiency.

Based on what you said for autophagy results, to paraphrase. It sounds like I need to do less daily calorie restriction and switch to longer fasts instead. I will up my protein calories for a couple weeks and will do a longer fast at the end of it, maybe 48 hours.

Thank you for your advice Paul.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

Indeed, as Dr. Fung says, when you fast, fast; when you eat, feast!


(Jane) #12

My husband started out keto with me and really enjoyed the benefits but then he discovered he could increase his carbs and maintain the benefits. Still low carb but not keto but he was never overweight by more than 15 lbs.

He is 5’ 7" and 155 lbs and looks great and maintains easily since he was able to add a few food back into his diet (not me, but I don’t have his metabolism even though our activity levels are essentially the same - I eat a third of the calories he does).

I would think 5’ 10" and 160 lbs would be a very healthy weight for a man, unless you want to replace fat with muscle and then I can understand but you will need to eat more protein to do that, which I see you are going to try.

Good luck!