America’s Wild Deer Problem - There's a Problem?
I’m doing my part. Just applied for this years tags! Best part is nobody is force feeding them GMO grains.
The Pennsylvania Game Commissioner remarked (quite a few years ago, now) that the sign that controled hunting works is that before the game laws were introduced, the state’s deer herd was close to extinction, but now we are at the point where, if we don’t allow hunting, the deer suffer from starvation. That’s a good problem to have, in my book!
Boy could I write a book here… but won’t. Paul you are correct that there was a point, and not that very long ago, that Deer numbers were so low they were indeed considered becoming near to extinction and this was mainly because of unregulated hunting that was performed year around. … The introduction of regulations on seasonal Deer harvest not only had an impact of this, but has allowed them to rebound to astronomical numbers … In my 30+ years of experience hunting, I can say that I don’t think starvation is the biggest problem, as much as the over-population in some area that causes many other issues… The over-population leads to many things, such as crop damage, property damage, and one of biggest, vehicle accidents and injuries. … But the biggest issue this really causes is disease. Diseases such as CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) and others have a big impact on overpopulated Deer numbers, and is also, very cruel in nature. If numbers are not kept in check w/ regulated hunting, it doesn’t take long for areas to reach numbers way higher than they should be, and this leads to Mother-Nature stepping in. And believe me, she is not kind. Harvesting & managing Deer through hunting is so much more ethical and humane. Anyone who reads up just a little on things such as CWD, Bluetongue, etc., etc. and see’s what it does to them and how it works. It’s very sad indeed, and very un-necessary. But as the number of Deer continues to rise, the number of Hunters continues to dwindle, which also adds to the problem.
But as I stated, there’s way too much to write on this subject and I didn’t even mention anything about all the other obstacles that have an impact of being able to properly manage Deer numbers by hunting. Having access to hunting areas, (mostly private lands, but public lands too) - dealing with some crazy folks on public lands, or just not being able to get permission from folks that do have land. … But I do actually have to head to work now. 
Where I will most definitely will be seeing many, many 
the entire hour long drive, which is mostly though farm lands, or at least open, forested woodlands. 
As I said, this comment I referred to was made quite a while ago, and I’m not surprised that there are now other problems affecting the deer herd, as well. Thanks, Dave, for a great discussion about what they are.
No problem, Paul. They’ve been speaking on these issues for many years now. And starvation is a big issue for Whitetail Deer, especially when their numbers exceed the normal capacity for an area. But I think sometimes people forget about all the other issues that come with that situation, and it’s sad.
oh yea hubby hunted Raleigh area and they had a huge outbreak of Blue T and deer were found just lying dead in streams and more…it can be horriflying
but we ALL KNOW that normal deer life is not normal thru humans so many exist in neighborhoods, no hunt state parks and more and no more normal predators like wolves and 'yotes and cougars so in the end…deer MUST BE maintained. Cause humans made it that way.
More hunting is a good thing cause man made it that way and we must now be ‘nature’ against normal life and I know many states will issue extra doe tags to stop the birth rate etc so again, good thing. hunting is a must cause humans made it that way!
Well, anything us humans do, touch, etc. will always have impacts. No different from, say, introducing species from other areas. 
This is not always a good thing, (most times to be honest) and sometimes back-fires, causing even bigger issues overall. Seems some don’t always account for the long run changes that might occur, or the natural wildlife that exist there… Too many to discuss here.
As bad as regulations are indeed needed, they also have to be set up and managed properly to work. … I noticed you mentioned the ‘additional doe tag’, and that there is one of the problems. For instance, I live in Maryland, Southern Maryland to be exact. And we have pretty liberal limits here. It’s 10 Doe’s a season, along with 3 Bucks, if one purchases the additional ‘Antlered Tag’ for $10, which I always do regardless if I use it or not. But most will not harvest anywhere near that number. I have in years taken 8 I think?, where most went to friends and family who wanted some, and there is always the orgs set up to help others, like the FHFH we have here. (Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry) But they have these in a lot of states, and it is a very good cause indeed! Well worth a search for those interested.
But we also have some counties that actually allow ‘unlimited Doe’s’ with a bow, plus, still the 10 with Black Powder & Shotgun. And they still cannot keep the numbers in check. (Kinda says something there, huh, but is anyone actually listening?) Then you have states that have the nerve to only allow one Deer to be taken in a single season… 
really? Really? And they expect to manage anything? I can’t fathom how some think this can work, when other states with huge limits can’t. But to be honest, I think a lot of this comes down to folks from other states, coming to a place to Trophy Hunt, paying a much larger fee, and hunting a place with loads of Deer in it. … And before anyone reads anything into that, for the record “I AM NOT AGAINST TROPHY HUNTING”, and have taken quite a few nice Bucks in my time, but I am in no way, a Trophy Hunter. First and foremost I am simply a hunter, and have my own set of perimeters I set many years ago. (Simply, I will shoot any mature Doe that offers an opportunity, and… she doesn’t have little ones that still have their spots. Once they lose their spots, most are no longer feeding off Mom, so they can manage on their own. - And for Bucks, I like to personally wait until they are at least 3.5 years old, just to allow them time to grow up, mate, etc. … But for anyone who simply waits out for that ‘Buck of Lifetime’ … Well, that’s much harder then one might think, allowing all those other Deer to walk, when at times that scenario is most times… didn’t see anything. And I have no issues with these folks what-so-ever… As long as they also do their part, culling the herd by taking out some Does as well. They can always donate the meat if they are not really into Venison, (Are they nuts!) or better yet, filling up their freezers with some fantastic meats to eat and share!
Actually, shooting Deer is quite easy, and the easy part is done once you fire. It’s what follows that is the work. Preparation starts when the projectile has been fired. The handling, transporting, butchering, vacuum sealing… that’s where all the work comes in. And yeah, some simply take theirs to a butcher-shop, drop it off and simply let them know what they want. For me, I’ve also done it all myself and see it as a part of hunting experience. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind doing it, but it can wear you out! More so if you end up doing 3 or 4 in just a week. Which I have done quite a few times. … But well worth it.
Sorry, I said I wasn’t going to write a book… but it is something that is a big part of me.
So far, it reads well, so carry on with installments, please!
That is very old thinking. Someone isn’t keeping up with the changing situation.
Thanks DD. Very interesting perspective. Shame the management could not be expanded as necessary to keep the numbers at an optimal and healthy level and the meat donated to those in need.
In PA it is one deer. After that you have apply 4 months in advance for a doe permit and then maybe get one more if they go unsold.
In addition to keeping the numbers somewhat it check, hunters are the most dedicated conservationists. A lot of people talk about conservation but the hunters have a vested interest plus a genuine love for the outdoors and the animals and their fees wind up paying for a large part of habitat management
@amwassil Thanks, Michael. I am quite passionate when it comes to Whitetail Hunting, and it is indeed something I’ve loved for many years now and hope to continue. I’m an Archer at heart.
@PaulL - The problem is, it doesn’t always appear that they really care at times, to be honest. So I can’t think it’s just old thinking alone, which it is to a point when you think about it. But there’s been too many new folks replaced over the years, and the situation hardly ever changes for some areas? And this has baffled some folks all across the US, because it’s been hammered home time and time again ALL of the benefits of opening up more hunting opportunities for their states residents, and how the state itself will benefit from it. But still nothing changes. … And then some areas, you have to put in for a lottery system just to get certain tags to take an animal, and this can at times take many years before your name gets pulled. But at this very same time, outfitters can outright somehow purchase 50, 75, 100 or more tags for ‘their customers’, which are all almost predominantly out-of-state hunters, who pay anywhere from 10 times, to nearly 50 times what a residential hunting licenses cost? Not to mention, some scary high cost to the outfitter for the service. So it’s hard to swallow how they can justify this…
Something really needs to change, and I personally think this limitation is also part of the reason why so many are just getting fed up and giving up so easily for something they enjoy so very much… Sad.
@Knnn Thanks, Ian. I do hope they open up their eyes before it gets too much worse. We have surely seen enough of new diseases over the years, but nature will always take care of it’s own. Unfortunately, a lot of these diseases take care of things in some terrible, awful ways. And even when areas just have a couple easy winters compared to the norm, the natural die-off that some areas see Winter, also has a major offset and this causes booms in numbers as well. So the next die-off can be quite extreme.
Honestly, I love Venison. Just like most other red meat. But if something were to happen to me, such as the Lone Star Tick issues, and I could no longer eat Venison/Red Meat. I would still hunt just as much & simply donate it all. For me, it’s the hunt that I enjoy. Taking an animal is just a bonus. (I’m being quite honest here, when I say for every Deer I have taken, I have probably let 40 to 50 walk. It’s because the kill is not what I enjoy most about hunting. It’s just a small part of it to be honest. … Funny thing is, before my Wife actually started going hunting with me years ago I would get the same question upon my return. …(Did ya see anything?) 
I would then tell her about all the Deer I’d seen, what they were doing, things I laughed or smiled about, etc., etc. - Then she’d ask, why didn’t ya take one? - Well, skip forward to our first outing, and if I remember correctly, we had 4 large does come in and walk right up to us, not 10 yards. Of course, we couldn’t move, we were sitting in chairs, on the ground, next to a tree. (She couldn’t stop smiling, and yes, laughing! 
I was astounded they continued to get closer, and it just seemed to intrigue the Deer more?) … When it was finally over, she never raised her weapon, but looked back at me smiling and said… I see now why you don’t always shoot. I just smiled.
@fitbod - Yeah, PA is a state of some crazy regs on it’s own! Being our northern neighbor, I’ve known some folks who hunted there, and those I spoke with were never happy with regs. … I mean, DAMN, didn’t you folks have Black Powder limitations on just using flint-locks, up until a few years ago? If I’m remembering correctly? I sure hope that has changed, and they also open up in your state as well.
But you are correct. Over the years I have met some really great folks. And I tell folks who think hunting is just cruel & for those wanting to kill… that you would be hard-pressed to find bigger conservationists, then hunters. (I have yet to meet anyone who hunted because they enjoyed killing something or simply disliked Deer. It’s actually just the opposite. They admire and respect the animals they pursue and they have a passion that runs quite deep.) But understandably, that’s hard to explain to anyone who doesn’t have something they are as compassionate about. And yeah… all it takes is a little quick search to see just how much funding actually comes from hunting in the state you’re in, to see it’s value. Not only the license cost itself, but all the other equipment and accessories purchased by these dedicated folks.
With the Chronic Wasting Disease in the deer herd being a prion disease has there been any cases of Mad Cow-like disease in hunters who eat the venison?
NC
Bag Limits
- The season and possession bag limit is six deer, two of which may be antlered, and four of which may be antlerless.
- There is no daily bag limit.
- Antlerless deer harvested and reported on Bonus Antlerless Harvest Report Cards do not count towards the season or possession limit.
- Bonus Antlerless Harvest Report Cards allow for the harvest of two additional antlerless deer per card. These are ONLY valid for use for deer taken within participating municipalities during the Urban Archery Season (described below). Unlimited Bonus Antlerless Harvest Report Cards are available to each hunter. Bonus Antlerless Harvest Report Cards can be obtained on or after Jan. 1 at most wildlife service agents, or online at ncwildlife.org or by calling 888-248-6834.
- Antlerless deer harvested under the Deer Management Assistance Program (DMAP) and tagged with harvest tags provided with the program are not included in normal statewide bag limits.
I am not up to date on it all as hubby is the hunter but I saw this for our state.
Though I read a ton of information on CDW when it really started blowing up some years back, it has been a while since I did this research. But no, to the best of my knowledge/memory, there was never any cases of humans contracting the disease from eating wild Deer, Elk, Moose, etc. that was reported. But it was indeed one of the main fears hunters had. I learned that CWD was also a disease that had been around a lot longer than most had realized. (Back in the 60’s I believe? But it was also just found in a 1 or 2 states at that time? And it wasn’t until cases started popping up in multiple areas that the fear started to build much more) It was this uprise that also caused restrictions on transporting animals that were taken in one state, to be transferred to another, in hopes of keeping the disease from spreading. (I honestly don’t know how much has changed with that now, since I don’t hunt out of state and never had to deal with that issue. But it did cause issues for those that did travel to hunt these game animals.
Actually I just checked for any updates on the contraction of CWD from wild game to humans, since it has been a while. And thankfully it still reports no cases from the game animals I mentioned above. Though it can still be contracted through Cows. Not sure why this is so, but here’s the snippet from the article that pulled up first, along with the link it was from. (Again, it was just the first result pulled)
With such uncertainty revolving around CWD, there was quite a bit of information that was being provided to the hunting community. Recommendations to help prevent spread/contraction included; not cutting through the spinal cord when butchering, and of course, not eating parts like the brain, etc. … Which I believe is the same with Cow products, but not sure where it stands today for them? But you could just tell by the restrictions that were being placed just for this disease, along with all the data that was coming out everywhere, that is was indeed something that was quite feared
@Fangs Those seasonal bag limits sound pretty reasonable. I think most hunters would be happy with those limits overall. … It’s mostly those states that only provide their residents with 1 or 2, that are the biggest problem. And sadly some of those same places still try some of the crazy ways to get numbers back in check, such as sniping deer at night (By professionals, of course. 
) or contraceptives. Which neither are very successful, and are quite costly to boot. … But there’s the niche… if they see the need to go to these lengths, why not utilize the best option, which is simply the hunters themselves and not put such low bag limits on them to begin with? - That boat just doesn’t float in my book.
And for the record when I mention ‘professionals’ above… I’m sorry, I just find it kinda funny. Since they feel that someone who is a, say, police officer or something similar they hire, are much more proficient with weapons then hunters. It’s dumbfounding to me. Most hunters I know practice WAY, WAY more then the average person within those fields. And most are quite proficient with their weapons they choose to hunt with. - In other words, a title does not make one proficient, practice does.
So agree with you. One trouble tho is just being ‘that state’ which is so overly human dense that the darn deer live in backyards literally…and we know you can’t hunt near homes etc.
what is funny is at Moss Lake where my mom lives, waterfront community of homes…‘their herd of deer’ is a PIA. They cross roads in daytime…they run along side the road going into her neighborhood all the time…nothing to see 6-10 in a few people front yards just wandering, eating, having a darn blast and there are alot of ‘1/2 albino’ deer in the group…you know the ones that won’t last in the wild but hold their own in a non-predator, non-hunt area. In fact driving to her house I do all the time when I hit a certain area I GO ON point for the damn daytime deer LOL
but I SO understand all you wrote about ‘control’ and how ‘they’ go about it. My hubby is the hunter and boy if he was on this thread right now HAHA Conservation is done correctly by the best hunters ‘who get’ it as you do and I hear you about all the crazy out there with control.
I love how they re-introduced some 'yotes around here, now the darn things are everywhere which is a good and a bad but ya can’t hunt them in your backyard when they wanna eat your little doggie or chow down on my chickens. HA WINK…we got a farm so hubby can hunt more loose than others in a way but you get my drift on that.
Animals and humans combined can be a tough combo.
Luckily hubby will tag out for others who want deer in the freezer so he hunts for them too, the older set that can’t do it anymore and boy is that meat appreciated.
Yea I live with an all in hunter, boy have I heard alot about it all LOL