Am I even a ketoer or just a low carber?

[Fry]

So I eat less than 50 net carbs a day. My diet is mostly collard greens, eggs, olives, chicken, cheese, beef, peanut butter (no sugar), cashews and chicken stock.

The collards have 11 total carbs per cup but only 3 net. Peanut butter has 6 total, 4 net and cashews have 9 total, 8 net.

So if I did total carbs it would be more like 66 carbs per day. The main offender being the collards. Without the collards it would be only 58 total.

Is this low enough? I cannot afford a blood tester and I know the urine strips are not the most accurate or reliable.

With the urine strips I have shown to be in ketosis at least trace throughout the day and moderate first thing in the morning.

Going lower would mean taking out nutrients and since the supplement industry is literally 100% unregulated I do not take supplements. Unless there’s some veggies that I could replace collards with that are as nutritious and as low in oxalates (spinach is loaded with oxalates which can cause kidney stones)? Nuts as nutritious as peanuts and cashews that are lower in carbs (pecans half half the potassium of peanuts for example)?

[Kimmer]

To get into ketosis, you would need to be consuming no more than 20 grams of carb per day. However, if you’ve been ketogenic for a long time, you probably could carb up and still be in ketosis.

I think you are porbably a low carber though and not ketogenic. Nothing wrong with that either! If you feel good and you are healthy, keep doing what you are doing!

[LeCheffre]

To the top line question: does it matter?

Are you feeling the benefit?

PS- 20 is a guideline for people to get into ketosis. Some folks can get in at a higher number. Some folks need to go lower. Some folks seem to treat 20 like this one size magic number, as though gram 21 kicks you back to glucose metabolism. It ain’t necessarily so.

[Fry]

@Kimmer

Thank you. Some sources say that 50 is the magic number (Peter Attia for one). Even more say 20-50 is the number. Some do say that 20 is the limit but most sources agree that there is variance.

My experience is that less than 50 net per day does put me into ketosis. So I think 20 is unecessarily restrictive, for me anyway. My only issue is whether to do net or total.

I have done keto for a year straight before with between 50 and 70 total carbs and always below 50 net and tested regularly and always been in at least mild ketosis. This means that I was definitely below the threshold for being just a low carber and not actually in ketosis as I was, by definition, in ketosis.

However these days I switched from spinach to collards and I’m wondering if the regular intake of the higher total carb vegetable is keeping me just out of ketosis except for over night.

I suppose I am barking up the wrong tree here and should just figure out how to afford a blood tester lol!

[ZoZo]

I think I would agree with LeCheffre. Does it matter? If you are not experiencing the benefits you are specifically eating like this to achieve then look at what you are eating. If it is working for you, stick at it. You seem to be also managing the nutrients or anti- nutirents that some foods have. You could consider lower carb nuts that cashews or more variety i veggies but again - if it is working stick at it.

I think below 20grams is suggested as it will get almost anyone into ketosis- but for a lot of other people, you probably one of them you can do more carbs. The definition of keto is if it puts you in ketosis- and for some it is an amount above 20 g.

[LeCheffre]

Yeah. If you’re not getting the benefits start with:
Cashews out, almonds and macadamias in.
Peanut butter out and maybe almond butter in, but I’d put all that on a scale because people are not really good at estimating either.

No one got in this situation with collard greens unless they added sugars to them.

[keehan]

Some sources say that 50 is the magic number (Peter Attia for one). Even more say 20-50 is the number. Some do say that 20 is the limit but most sources agree that there is variance.

If I understand it right, the 20g carb limit is to guarantee ketosis. It’s a lowest common denominator number for just about everyone. There may be people that get into ketosis at higher numbers just fine. I think it comes from your brain needing at least 20g (or more) of glucose per day to stay functional. Your liver will quite adequately meet that need via gluconeogenesis by breaking down lipids and 20g or less of carbs ensures it comes from ketosis rather than injested carbs. i.e. you have to be in ketosis or you’re dead.

[Fry]

@LeCheffre

So you would say it is safe to do net carbs on collards and not total?

[Fry]

@LeCheffre
@ZoZo

Why does it matter?

Because based on my research ketones are good for us and that is the only reason I do this diet: to produce ketones. I do not need to lose weight. I am in it purely for the ketones.

[LeCheffre]

Ketones are not a reason. For real. They are a means to an end. What is the larger goal and are you getting there or not. Whether you call it ketogenic or LCHF is semantics, not goal oriented behavior.

That’s why it doesn’t matter.

[LeCheffre]

Depends how screwed your metabolism is, but no one has ever gotten fat eating broccoli to satiety. Collards and kale are in the same realm. But if you’re really sweating the carbs of collards, switch to kale.

[CandyLindTX]

But if you’re really sweating the carbs of collards, switch to kale.

Um …
100 g cooked collards has 5.6 g total carb, 4 g fiber - net 1.6;
100 g cooked kale has 5.6 g total carb, 2 g fiber, net 3.6. Which is why I eat a ton of collards. That extra 2 grams net will come in handy somewhere when you’re working with only 20.

Maybe one of these days I won’t sweat them quite so much, but with at least 75 pounds to lose I’m still counting in tenths.

[ZoZo]

So ketones are your main motivator. Is there a specific reason you want them? Are you trying to target some health outcomes, reduce inflammation etc. Or other reasons.

Are there indicators that you are in ketosis? Ie better mood, mental clarity, more even energy, reduced body pains (ie less inflammation), less headaches or other.

[matt]

The collards are not an issue. Get rid of the cashews. They are the carbiest nut BY FAR. In fact they are not really even a nut. Cashews are drupes and the nut is actually the pit of the fruit.

Try walnuts or pecans.