After "Cheating", what are the mechanisms that prevent ketosis?


#1

Hi!

Just watched a video with Dr Eric Berg where he says it might take as long as a week to get back into ketosis after a “cheat” with carbs. I don’t understand how that is actually possible. Wouldn’t that mean that the body would then be running on the glucose derived from that one single meal for a whole week until ketosis is reestablished?

I can’t quite make sense of that. I would think it would only take as long to get back into ketosis as it’d take for the body to burn away the carbs from that last meal? Once the body has spent the carbs from that meal, it’s back to running on fat isn’t it? For me (skinny, high metabolism) I think it wouldn’t take more than intermittent fasting overnight and I’d be back?


(Running from stupidity) #2

That’s where things will start to go wrong, right there.


(bulkbiker) #3

I’ll second @juice I’m not a fan of Dr Berg for that exact reason. …he sometimes spouts crap…but sounds very knowledgable… a dangerous mix.
Provding it is just one meal and you burn off the glucose you should be ok… obviously if you make a habit of it then that is likely to stop you getting back into full ketosis and maybe you could stall fat adaptation for some days…
I found the few times I have done it all my old food addictions were resurrected which was bad news…


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

Most carbohydrates, especially starches, are in the form of chains of glucose molecules. Those molecules are cleaved in the digestive tract, and the glucose enters your bloodstream. Since the presence of glucose above a certain level is dangerous, and possibly even life-threatening, the pancreas, when it senses this high load of glucose in the blood, secretes insulin to get it out of there.

A high level of insulin in the blood does two things: it causes the muscles to take in glucose and burn it instead of fat (storing any extra as glycogen), and it causes the adipose tissue to convert the glucose into trigylcerides for storage. These two actions get the glucose out of the bloodstream and avert the danger.

If your muscles are used to running on glucose exclusively, it takes many weeks for them to convert over to burning ketones and fatty acids. The fat cells, as I understand it, pretty quickly regain their ability to break down triglycerides and release the fatty acids to be metabolized. One of the hallmarks of metabolic flexibility, which is a property of fat-adaptation, is the muscles’ ability to switch between burning glucose and burning ketones and fatty acids. In this context, note two things: the insulin level must subside before fat metabolism becomes possible again, and excess glycogen stored in the muscle cannot be released—it must be turned back into glucose and metabolized right there in the muscle.

Since the body normally has only about a tablespoon of glucose circulating in the blood, you can imagine that carbohydrate in any quantity can occupy the metabolism for some time.


(Robert C) #5

I looked at the video, he mentions 48 to 72 hours.
Sometimes up to a week and then he explains by example:
23 year old thin guy can probably flip back and forth without issue.
50 or 60 year old female that has been on diets (i.e. metabolism has not been repaired yet) could take a week (I assume meaning starting out - just got into ketosis but not years spent in ketosis).

Not sure that is really all that incorrect.


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #6

I can eat 60g of carbs and drink two beers and be back into ketosis within 12 hours. Dr Berg is full of it, lol.


(Jane) #7

Yes, he is full of it. Same here and I am an old woman who has yo-yo dieted most of her adult life! You still burn up the extra carbs from one meal pretty quick - less than a day.


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #8

I feel like he works on ‘worst case scenario’.


(Running from stupidity) #9

Well, he’s all about that Scientology…


#10

Considering the body prioritizes getting rid of glucose and uses its glycogen stores, unless you were to eat an absurd number of carbs that day, I can’t imagine it would take more than a couple days at most for most people to get back in ketosis, sooner if they’re fat adapted.


(Jane) #11

It only takes a couple of days to get into ketosis when your glycogen stores are completely full and it’s your first time to eat keto!

A week? After one high carb meal? Pfffffttttttt…

Bullshit.


(Running from stupidity) #12

Consider the source.

#brokenrecord


#13

Okay, so I’ll be skipping Mr Berg from now on. But nevertheless though, like PauIL mentioned there, if the muscles are used to running on glucose exclusively and it takes many weeks for them to convert over to burning ketones, the question is still up: if it takes many weeks to convert, what are they running on in the mean time? Because if the glucose runs outs in 48 hours and it takes weeks for them to convert, they will HAVE to have already made the switch in 48 hours because there will be no more glucose. What you mean by conversion is their efficiency, right, like upregulation of mitochondria and such… because either there will be glucose or there will be a little glucose or there will be no glucose…in the absence of glucose the body will already be burning ketones. And that’s what didnt make sense in Dr Bergs video…if it would take a week to make the switch back, that’d be impossible, because one meal could not possibly supply enough glucose for a whole week.


#14

Wouldn’t you be eating additional food in that week? Your body digests that food as usual and then uses that as fuel? A mixture of carbs, protein and fat? You’re not in ketosis anymore so any excess carbs would be stored as fat in the usual way I suppose.

It takes 2 or 3 days to switch from carb burning to fat burning in the first place (as per Phinney/Volek). Not sure why it goes up to a week on re-entry? Is that for keto-adaption not just switch over?

(I don’t know much about fasting so can’t comment about that)