After 6.5 years of LC/keto and 4 years testing..Morning BS dropping?

(Bob M) #1

I started low carb (LC)/keto on 1/1/14. I did not track anything until June 2016, when I started with blood sugar, then added ketones (all flavors of them), CGM, etc.

Here’s June 2016, when I used to highlight morning values in green (for some of them, anyway):

You can see that my morning blood sugar was relatively high, over 100 unless I was fasting multiple days. (Note: I think I was using a Precision Xtra monitor for blood sugar at this time, which was not a great monitor – seemed to have high error rate.)

That stayed like that until this year sometime. (And I used multiple monitors since then, Bayer Contour Ez - which is accurate - FreeStyle Libre CGM and pin prick monitor, etc.)

Fast forward to recent tests. I had stopped testing, but recently found some Free Style Libre strips. I started using them (marked morning values in red):

Whoa! What the heck is this?

My theories:

  1. I was eating a very high saturated fat diet for a while. This seemed to coincide with a drop in morning blood sugar, but…

  2. After starting the high sat fat diet, the pandemic hit. The kids were now home all the time. Instead of picking them up after activities and getting home to start eating dinner at 7:30pm or later, I’ve been going home much earlier and eating earlier. Last night, for instance, finished at 7pm and stayed up later than normal (11pm), but…

  3. Since I want to have dinner with the kids, I’ve been getting home earlier and have been able to eat OMAD on certain days (Monday and Wednesday this week, for instance). To eat OMAD, I have to eat early (but see below); otherwise, I eat too much too late and go to bed too early. Not a good plan. But…

  4. For some reason, I’m gaining strength. A lot of it. When the pandemic started, I could do maybe 15 or so pushups. I built up to 30. Then I started doing pseudo-one hand pushups (do a pushup mainly on the right hand, keep left hand 90 degrees away from the body, with light pressure on the left hand). I could barely do any of those. Yesterday, I did 12 of them. I’m going to have to go to true one-hand pushups (other hand behind the back), but on stairs.

So, it’s (1) high sat fat, (2) eating earlier; (3) OMAD; and/or (4) muscles providing more of a blood sugar/insulin “sink”.

Whatever it is…that 85 I got this morning is shocking to me, as the only way I got that before (in the morning) was to fast multiple days.

So, if you think things are never going to change…maybe just wait awhile?

An aside: I had to stop eating a high saturated fat diet. If I ate high saturated fat at my first meal of the day, I COULD NOT eat at dinner. I went out (pre-pandemic) and took my food home from a restaurant because I could not eat. I skipped dinner because I could not eat. I was physically not hungry, at all, even 7-8 hours later. Sometimes, late at night, I’d get hungry.

This was good if I was getting home at 8:30 pm with the kid(s) and they wouldn’t miss a dinner with me, as I could wait the 45 minutes before I went to bed. I was able to eat OMAD at about lunch time with high saturated fat. (Or, I would fast 36 hours on those late nights.)

But wanting to eat with the family at night, I had to stop eating high saturated fat so that I would actually be hungry to eat with them at dinner.

(Bob M) #2

Well, I honestly do not know why my blood sugar is down, but it’s consistently near 90 every morning, though there are of course days (like today) closer to 100. And I’d love to say that I knew why I got close to 100 today and did not other days, but I don’t. I ate OMAD at about 6:30pm yesterday, but I did that last week with different results. Sometimes, N=1 studies just fail or are too hard to analyze.

I might have to get strips for a different meter to double check.

(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #3

I wonder if you are finally returning to full insulin sensitivity? Or perhaps you’ve finally learned to manage your stress? :grin: :laughing:

But whatever the reason, it sounds like a healthy change, so congratulations.

(Bob M) #4

You speak the truth, Paul!

It’s just as an enginerd, I want to know “why”. And, when I don’t know, it drives me crazy.

But I’ve taken enough tests to know that things are rarely what they seem. Put differently, if you think Doing X causes Y, keep trying. You’ll likely find that Doing X may or may not cause Y; depends on the day. :wink:

And it doesn’t help that our testing meters have too much error in them.

(Bunny) #5

I would want a low and quick insulin spike with massive glucose clearance.

[1] “…It should be noted here that there are some tissues that do not require insulin for efficient uptake of glucose: important examples are brain and the liver. This is because these cells don’t use GLUT4 for importing glucose, but rather, another transporter that is not insulin -dependent. 2 …” …More

[2] “…The ketogenic diet is a big fan of healthy fats, but could too much fat could be hurting our blood glucose levels. Dr. Nikola Djordjevic, MD from explains that the general assumption of the ketogenic diet lowering blood glucose levels is only partially correct. “Some individuals do experience high levels of glucose in their blood while on a ketogenic diet. The reason for this is that substituting fat for sugar isn’t exactly sustainable over time,” she explains. “What’s important to understand is that the glucose in your blood is dependent on both carbohydrate and fat intake.” According to Dr. Djordjevic, when you consume too much dietary fat, you can actually increase your insulin resistance. This results in high glucose levels in your blood and can lead to conditions such as high cholesterol. It can also increase your risk of developing chronic diseases.

While it’s true that “cutting down on carbs will definitely help reduce glucose levels in the short term,” says Dr. Djordjevic, “I wouldn’t recommend loading up on dietary fat in order to achieve ketosis, since, in the long-term, it can affect your insulin resistance and lead to more serious health conditions.” …” …More

[3] The Dr. Ted Naiman version which is supposed to be temporary?

(Bob M) #6

My HOMA-IR varies quite a bit. It depends what day I take it. Like fasting insulin, it varies too much to be a great tool. The yellow are fasting 4.5 days. I did not get insulin taken a lot, as I have to pay for it, and these tests gets expensive after a while.

The 6/14/19 to 6/17/19 was a test of Dave Feldman’s cholesterol drop protocol, where I fasted 4.5 days then ate as much fat and calories as possible for 3 days prior to the second test, and he said that high blood sugar for that second test (where I got a 112) was normal.

These are my current tests (blood sugar far right; breath ketones from ketonix to the left of that):


I’ve come up with another possibility. Since the pandemic hit the US, I’ve been taking vitamins/minerals I normally do not take. For instance, I’ve been taking zinc, selenium, l-citrulline, some magnesium. I take l-citrulline somewhat regularly, but don’t take the others that regularly.

However, yesterday, I took zinc (one pill, higher potency), selenium (one pill, higher potency), and l-citrulline (two pills, one for each meal). I was not that hungry at dinner, so I ate a smaller meal with the family. I did have a drink, though, last night. I have also been spraying on magnesium oil each night.

And this morning, my morning blood sugar hit a new low (84) for me when eating (when fasting, I can get lower in the morning). And last night’s blood sugar was low (72).

Since I take more (regularly) of the l-citrulline, I’m leaning toward it as lowering my blood sugar.

However, I don’t see much research in the way of l-citrulline’s effect on blood sugar. I do see it supposedly affects insulin, though I can’t tell whether it’s good or bad:

Though there’s this, in rats:

So, I’m leaning toward the vitamins/minerals I’m taking as being the possible explanation. I honestly haven’t changed my eating much if at all (I eat a widely varying diet anyway). I don’t think it’s diet.

I am doing more OMADs, but in the past I’ve done even more 36+ hour fasts, and did not have this effect.

If it’s not the vitamins/minerals, I’m flummoxed.

(Bunny) #7

Hmmm? Why not just eat watermelons :watermelon:?

Speaking of melons, bitter melon extract works on brown fat (UCP-1, UCP-3) mitochondria and uses dietary carbohydrates and glucose directly for fuel without storing it as fat. BAT also uses subcontaneous fat for fuel at the same time inserting mitochondria and iron into its neighboring fat cells when munching or eating its nearby friend.

What is also interesting about that; is, if all the fat cells in your body had mitochodria in them you would never ever get fat.

Bitter melon extract and other substances like it but esp. bitter melon will activate what little brown fat the body has but you have to cool the body down with cold water after taking it.

That is called cold thermal adaption which puts more mitochondria into fat cells so they function properly and is also called a Master Leptin Reset Switch.

According to Dr. Jack Kruse MD, neurosurgeon, If you could place your entire body up against a cold metal plate and take bitter melon extract you could put the missing mitochondria back into fat cells and reset your entire bodies Leptin circuitry to the hypothalamus and become thin no matter what you ate but you would probably die doing it so cold showers are probably more logical, he was able to do it by putting his body in ketosis without any exercise whatsoever and swimming in cold water in the winter time and shrink his fat cells…lol


[1] L-Citrulline increases hepatic sensitivity to insulin by reducing the phosphorylation of serine 1101 in insulin receptor substrate-1

[2] Potential roles of Citrulline and watermelon extract on metabolic and inflammatory variables in diabetes mellitus, current evidence and future directions: A systematic review

[3] l-Citrulline, But Not l-Arginine, Prevents Diabetes Mellitus–Induced Glomerular Hyperfiltration and Proteinuria in Rat

[4] Should You Take Citrulline Supplements?

[5] Beneficial Role of Bitter Melon Supplementation in Obesity and Related Complications in Metabolic Syndrome

(Bob M) #8

There is no freaking way I’m eating watermelon. Have you seen what these do to blood sugar?

As for cold thermal adaptation, all I have to do is jump into my pool or take a cold shower.

I am flummoxed. This is why I gave up testing. All the sudden, my last two days, my morning blood sugar has skyrocketed:


I have no idea why. The only thing I’ve been doing is way more work around the house and going hiking. I know from wearing a CGM that exercise like this causes a sustained blood sugar rise. Unfortunately, without a CGM, I’m trying to analyze something without good tools. Two blood sugar readings a day doesn’t tell me much, if anything.