Advice on How to Tell My Doc I want Off Statins

(Tracy) #1

I know I can just say I don’t want to take them, end of story. But I also would like to have a valid reason to stop so I don’t look like someone who is going against medical advice just to follow a trend. The reason I think I’d like to stop taking them is after a full year of Keto I feel like I’m healthier than I’ve ever been. I’m no longer diabetic, at my ideal weight, and have no medical issues. I’d like to hear the experiences of others who went off statins and what it did to their cholesterol. I’ve heard that I shouldn’t worry about high cholesterol, but I guess I’m still nervous that if I go off statins it will skyrocket. I take 10mg of Atorvastatin and this is here my labs were 6 months ago after 6 months on Keto:

Total Cholesterol - 213
Triglycerides - 62
Cholesterol HDL Ratio - 2.7
HDL Cholesterol - 79
Non HDL Cholesterol - 134
LDL (calculated) - 122
VLDL Calculated - 12

Newbie with cholesterol question
(Marianne) #2

Your numbers don’t look off the charts. If you are comfortable with the science and where you are at, then I think in this instance, the phrase, “better to ask for forgiveness than permission,” applies. I would just stop taking it and not have that discussion with your doctor until it comes up or you wish to bring it up in the future. Don’t fill your prescriptions.

(Tracy) #3

“Better to ask for forgiveness than permission” - I’ve never heard that before but it is now my new favorite quote! I was thinking the exact same thing about my numbers not being off the chart. Even with a low dose of statin the total number is still considered high. What if it only went up 10 more points after I stop taking them? I’ve overcome a lot of phobias while on Keto, like eating fat, eating salt, eating red meat, eating low fiber, etc. I’m still a work in progress and I think I’ve gone quite well. The cholesterol thing still haunts me a bit, but I’m on the road to understanding.

(Joey) #4

Perhaps this research paper will be of interest and provide some support in your decision…

StatinAdherence-CVD.pdf (413.4 KB)

(I’ve highlighted the most relevant passages for your convenience, but the entire paper makes for a good read.)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

It is also worth pointing out that several large studies funded by the U.S. government (MRFIT, the Nurses Study, the Framingham Study, the Women’s Health Initiative, the Minnesota Coronary Study, to name a few) have all failed to support the notion that elevated cholesterol is a risk factor for coronary heart disease. In fact, several of those studies actually showed a correlation between lower cholesterol and greater risk of cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality. Studies of people with familial hypercholesterolaemia (a genetic predisposition to elevated cholesterol) have shown that the risk of cardiovascular disease results not from their cholesterol levels, but from genetic abnormalities that make their blood more likelier to clot (people with FH who lack these abnormalities live just as long as the general population and tend to die of other causes than cardiovascular disease). And my favourite fact: far more than half of the people who show up at the emergency room with their first heart attack have normal or low cholesterol levels.

Here are some videos by Prof. David Diamond on statins and on what he calls “the cholesterol con” in general. They are fun to watch, as well as thoroughly documented.



(Tracy) #6

Great info Paul! I too have heard that heat attacks occur in those with normal/low cholesterol. I wonder how many of them were diabetic.

(Alec) #7

Here’s my contribution… these are charts from Zoe Harcombe reporting WHO data… I think they say everything you need to know. If my dr had me on statins (which we know are good at lowering cholesterol) I would be asking him: why are you trying to kill me?

2D45DF2E-AB2E-4917-B88F-4D8D5F5DBB91 B620762A-F1CF-46D8-8D6B-57BA7D24A124 3D827532-8C74-4221-BD11-7ADC3B3CD438 12129316-8880-49D1-86D9-B105ED4503EC

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

I have just been reminded that the best indicator of heart attack risk is your coronary arterial calcium (CAC) score, which is a direct measure of damage to the coronary arteries. Your CAC score can also be used to derive a prediction of your ten-year risk of having a heart attack. There are apparently data to show that if your CAC score is 0 there is no benefit whatsoever to taking a statin. It is only when your CAC rises to a level above 100 that the benefit of taking a statin starts to look at all reasonable.

Most insurance companies are not willing to pay for a CAC scan, but there are hospitals and imaging centres willing to do one without a prescription and for a reasonable fee. It might be worthwhile to see if there is such a place in your area.

(Ian) #9

I would also suggest the OP watching Ivor Cummin’s videos on CAC scores and the irrelevance of cholesterol in the absence of metabolic dysfunction, which the OP appears to have under control.

Examples include:

(Tracy) #10

I’ll be honest, I’m really scared to take this test. If I do have damage, is there anything that can be done about it? If I can’t do anything, I’m not sure living with the knowledge of the damage and wondering when I’m going to have a cardiac event would do much for my anxiety issues.

(Bob M) #11

That’s a good question with no clear answer. There are things that will help reduce progression or even reverse your score:

Magnesium, vitamin k2, low carb/keto, fasting, vitamin D, limiting intake of calcium, etc.

But if you get a small score, statins do not help. Multiple studies show this.

Of course, anything that increases your stress probably worsens heart disease, at least under some theories (the ones I like), so if you’ll freak at a non-zero score, maybe it’s best not to take one?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

The key to your calcium score is not so much the absolute value as the progression. An increasing score indicates a higher level of risk, while a stable or decreasing score indicates very low risk.

Arterial calcification can be reversed, though it is a slow process. The calcification is part of the process of repairing damage to our arteries. Ravnskov and Diamond posit that arterial damage naturally occurs all the time, but as long as the repair mechanisms can keep up, it is not a problem. Calcification occurs (if I’ve got this right) when the rate of damage exceeds the rate of repair, and that’s when we start to get into trouble. A well-formulated ketogenic diet helps in a number of ways. Lowered insulin levels halt the stiffening of the arteries and the inhibition of nitric oxide that lead to high blood pressure, and lowering glucose levels reduces the glycation of haemoglobin, making blood less likely to clot. Beta hydroxybutyrate, one of the principal ketone bodies, is a very good fuel for the heart muscle, since it requires less oxygen to metabolise than glucose or fatty acids require. And so forth. A well-formulated ketogenic diet also raises cholesterol in ways that are protective, not destructive, and one of the uses of cholesterol is to form vitamin D, which is essential to the process of getting calcium out of our arteries and back into our bones where we want it.

(Tracy) #13

I know it seems like I’m sticking my head in the sand or running away with my ears plugged about the CAC, but I know myself too well. Unless I hear zero, I will obsess and worry myself sick. I’ll revisit the idea later, but for the moment I don’t want to know. Right now my best course of action is to maintain my Keto diet, take myself off of statins for at least 6 months until my next blood draw just to see where my numbers are and see if my brain fog clears. My anxiety has worked in my favor for the first time in my life with Keto because I’m terrified of mixing carbs with all the fat I eat. I haven’t had so much as a cheat bite in 13 months and I have no desire to.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

I’m glad your anxiety is working in your favour.

Most people whose doctors are alarmed that their lipid numbers are high find that a CAC shows no arterial damage, so they can use that to get their doctors to shut up about statins. I was hoping you would fall into that category. But it is clear that you have reason to believe your coronary arteries are in bad shape, and I don’t blame you for not wanting to know just how bad the damage is.

#15

My personality directs me in that I am very direct.

When I had my PVC episodes with my heart and did it ALL to figure this out…to a heart cath…ugh…and surgeon said I AM FINE and why are you here? but all tests that gave me the diagnosis of PVC finally was all leading to heart blockage. (needless to say big mess for medical but that is how it went down)

then Doc says I want you on statins. I looked him dead in the eye and said nope. He said you need them cause…and I said NO. He just stared at me and I was like, NOPE and again NO…LOL

I wasn’t going there come heck or highwater ever.

Needless to say also I DO NO chol. checks with my Dr cause I rarely see a Dr. My Doc is a lady who is great and ‘knows me’ from when she opened long ago. I come in rarely and she goes, omg you must be bad to come see me LOL and we chat a while and she fixes me right up…again, very rare this goes down. White coat syndrome but when I did chol. way back cause she kinda forced me and I kinda did wanna see, I was ‘high bad’ in all numbers and had the ‘bad fluffy’ particles and my Dr was like go on this and I said NOPE.

Drs hate me HAHA they truly do cause I am one of those patients. Hey I die cause of my decisions then that is just me and my decision, I tell them they are off the hook for just that LOL

(Bob M) #16

Ah, Paul, when did you become British? :wink: (That “favour”, instead of “favor”. I personally LIKE the British spelling better, as it makes more sense.)

(Bob M) #17

Just don’t freak if your “bad” cholesterol goes up. It is a somewhat common occurrence. Even Virta (a company who uses keto with type 2 diabetics) found the one thing that went in the “bad” direction was LDL. EVERYTHING else went in the “good” direction.

But, if you do more research, there’s evidence that “increasing” LDL does not tell the entire story.

#18

Do you take any B vitamins?

(Todd Allen) #19

There are numerous studies indicating people with high LDL live longer. Dave Feldman found in the NHANES data that all 5 people who survived to become centenarians during the study had elevated LDL at the start of it. Studies have found low LDL is correlated with higher levels of cancer and neurodegenerative diseases. Even if high LDL is causal for an elevated risk of a heart attack, which looks unlikely to me, no one manages to avoid death forever and dying of a heart attack at an advanced age doesn’t seem like the worst possible fate.

(Carol) #20

Why don’t doctors know how bad statins are and how good cholesterol is? Do they have outdated information?

I think my doctor might have an inkling because she asked me if I would consider taking a statin. She didn’t suggest it.