Addictions and LCHF diets

#1

I have several people close to me who have mostly addictions to alcohol. The one college buddy who died of cancer a few years ago was addicted to a variety of things that included pills and alcohol, and my MIL who passed from cancer in 2018 (I nursed her during her last week, and held her hand as she died) was a long time alcoholic and up until she couldn’t eat/drink anymore, a sugar addict.

My MIL knew that I had gone keto, and she tried to convince me that “a bite here and there won’t hurt.” I had to keep reminding her that yes, yes, it would. She passed on, leaving five cartons of ice cream in her freezer. I tried to explain how a low carb diet could help her fight her cancer, but she would have none of it.

The college buddy death was hard. The guy was a brilliant engineer. Brilliant. His personal life was a mess, but what a loss. But I digress…

Question: Can y’all share any experience or helpful advice about these types of addictions and keto/carnivore? Since I am related to some of these people or see them fairly regularly, if the topic my carnivore WOE comes up and they show any interest, are there any suggestions I can offer them? I know from past experience that when alkies go off their drinking, they tend to compensate with sugar, like candy or ice cream. I’m guessing that their bodies are so full of carbs that it’s like a withdrawal for them — so they are dealing with two detox issues if they decide to go low carb. I’m assuming that’s why MIL was shoveling sugar while doing chemo. It was more than she could handle.

So, if any of you have experienced this and have some words of wisdom, I will be grateful if you would share. TIA.

(Robin) #2

As hard as it may be for you… I believe to keep keto to myself unless specifically asked.
I am a former addict of various substances. Anyone trying to confront me simply meant I distanced myself from them.
I believe addiction is an inside job. One that can only be overcome when our own minds, motivation, and willpower flip that elusive switch inside.
All we can do is love them and hope that our example inspires them.

(Mark) #3

Cancer feeds off of sugar. Many cancer patients crave sugar for that reason.

#4

Oh, I would never confront anyone. I know better than that! (I’m a member of Al-Anon, because of all of these relationships!)

But if someone asked me for tips and advice, should they want to change their diet…

(Jane) #5

I watched my T2D neighbor slowly decline and regress because she won’t give up sugar or bread. Nothing I could say to her would sway her, so I don’t even try.

Some people can quit carbs cold turkey and some can’t (or won’t - same result). If they need to ease into it then encourage them to give up all sugar. No sugar drinks (coffee, soda), no sugar desserts. Then give up one starch at a time (potatoes, rice, bread, corn). Bread is the hardest for most people IMO but everyone is different. For me, it was potatoes. I don’t miss bread or rice or corn (much) but potatoes…

For me, it was easier to go cold turkey because the gradual method was too easy to slip back into.

(Robin) #6

Same for me. All or nothing at all.

#7

Yes absolutely correct, as per German scientist Warburg

I think @robintemplin is correct. Most people do not want to hear about your diet, they do not want you to fix them. I am struggling with that with a few people in my life, not addicts but other health issues that changing diet may help but they tune me out. They focus on the difficulty rather than the benefits.

When I first went Keto (never went carnivore) I felt so great I wanted to share it with the world. Part of the problem is that people do not want to hear it. They will ask you if they see results but most of the time even that advice is dismissed if it does not match their lifestyle or it is not reinforced (eg their doctor or another friend advising them to do it). Now if someone asks I will tell them but I am not sure it makes an impression. Even my kids do not listen to me when I talk about diet so I have stopped

I feel like I face two battles, I am not an MD (yes I know they are not taught much about nutrition but the public thinks they know) and despite having lost substantial weight with keto (I have lost over 50 lbs since 2016) I am still not perfect specimens of physical fitness so I do not get the respect that someone who has a BMI of 24 does

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #8

Everyone has to choose their diet. I decided 2 years ago I didn’t want metformin and studied the alternatives. That’s why I’m here.
Last week my MIL was diagnosed T2 (81 years). I’ve been telling her about avoiding T2 for ages. She knows how I’ve turned it around, she’s watch me all the way. Made no difference. She’s 81 and loves eating cake :man_shrugging:

(KM) #9

It’s frustrating for sure. About a decade ago I took a phys ed course at my local community college. Just goofing off, really. So many of the young kids in class were really overweight. The instructor estimated my percentage body fat at 10% using calipers. I wasn’t really convinced it was that low, but he was very excited and asked me how on earth I did it. I said really I just avoid carbs, and I saw the light go out of his eyes. Apparently that answer was useless for him. I’m not sure what he was hoping for. I run with the bulls? I drink fairy dust at midnight?

(Doug) #10

:smile: I’ve had that - people asking “How did you do it?” (weight loss) - and before I get done with the first sentence they’re shaking their head, like, “Oh - there’s no way I can do that.”:smirk:

(Central Florida Bob ) #11

Sometimes it works to look at them silently for a second and then say, “oh, you’re right. You couldn’t do that.”

You know the old axiom: if you believe you can, you probably can. If you believe you can’t you’re probably right.

#12

The absolute WORST part of that one is for people like us here, that the majority were diabetic or even pre. For us (maybe I’m alone on this one), is that T2D is literally a joke, it’s like getting worried about putting a bandaid on a scratch, you just do it and let it heal.

But then you get the dope slap of reality when you see people eating SAD with T2D that due to ignorance, bad doctors, or they’re just unwilling to change, that in that situation (which is the overwhelming majority I guess) T2D is serious crap!

I’v been on Semaglutide for probably over a year now, for my hunger issues, not the A1C, but I was thinking, why’d they ever make this for Diabetes? Going for fat loss from day one would have been way smarter, and it would’ve gone mainstream earlier. Then I read this and again, the dopeslap! No wonder they drug the life out of you once you start walking the line.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

Yeah, alcoholics in recovery have to put up with a similar phrase. First, “a drink here and there” will cause me to break out in spots–Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis. Second, who drinks just one and stops? A normal drinker, perhaps, but not an alcoholic. One bottle, one case, one day–I can see those, but not one drink. (Though maybe if you were to fill up a 5-gallong bucket . . .)

I can testify that carnivore has removed my addiction to carbohydrate. Or, more precisely, I can look at my nephew’s French fries or snack foods and not feel an urge to try them, even though I still notice them. Whereas even on keto, I would have to summon all my will power to resist, and sometimes I would fail.

Will carnivore enable me to take just one drink and stop? Who knows? But in my view, it’s just not worth the risk. It’s been thirty-two years since my most recent drink, and I can still remember the exact taste of Johny Walker Red, Moët et Chandon, and Pouilly-Fuissé. Why should I risk it?

This is standard A.A. advice, and in my opinion, it’s often substituting one addiction for another. The hypothesis is that a food addiction is less likely to be immediately fatal and easier to deal with in the long term. My experience suggests that this is arguable. It took me two and a half decades to get free of my carb addiction.

The irony here is that the sugar was feeding the cancer. If she could have managed a carnivore or low-carb diet in conjunction with the radiation or chemotherapy, she might have survived. Dr Thomas Seyfried and others can point to numerous such patients.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

It’s impossible to say anything useful to an addict in the throes of addiction. In particular, any remark that begins with, “You should . . .,” seems to provoke them to defiant opposition. A.A. has a saying with a lot of truth in it, “When they aren’t ready, you can’t say the right thing; when they are ready, you can’t say the wrong thing.” About the only thing that might reach through the denial is asking the addict to let you tell your own story, on the grounds that it will help you.

In my experience there has to be a moment where the addict has to recognise his or her powerlessness over the behaviour, and surrender to the need for outside help. People who don’t have that moment can try to abstain, but they seem invariably to fail. Once they have that moment, they are usually fine from then on.

(KM) #15

I think that got lost in the shuffle, it doesn’t seem to me like you’re trying to reform addicts. If WOE comes up, I would focus on any benefit you are noticing personally, what motivated you to try it, and how you started.

I occasionally throw out an indirect challenge. Something for them to take home and contemplate at their leisure. “I decided to see if I could eat nothing but whole natural foods / animal foods / no added sugar / no alcohol / insert your diet for a week. It wasn’t easy at first but it felt so healthy I decided to keep going.”