About read to drink the Kool Aide (blood pressure)

(Marianne) #1

Had a doctor’s appointment last Thursday and a cardiologist appointment today. Both doctors had a lot to say about my cholesterol, even though my LDL went from 225 in May to 175 in November (started keto in January 2019). Up until now, I thought that was really great.

My cardiologist explained that a statin is not just beneficial to lower cholesterol but also to reduce any plaque that may be built up in my arteries. I never considered the latter, but it seems to make sense to me. I have been okay up to this point, but I think the one-two punch of these two appointments has weakened my resolve a little, as far as taking medication.

Any thoughts?

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #2

Maybe see if they will check for plaque buildup first?

(Marianne) #3

Thank you - what test would that be? I don’t know how they actually measure plaque. If it’s an angiogram or something like that, I don’t think they could justify it insurance-wise without a more compelling reason than I don’t want to go on a statin. :thinking:

(Jack Bennett) #4

Definitely go for a CAC scan to assess your risk factors before touching a statin. Non invasive and cheap, as medical tests go.

(Marianne) #5

Thank you!

Is that a Cat Scan? Does that show plaque? I could ask my cardio if insurance will approve it.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #6

https://www.cardiosmart.org/Heart-Conditions/High-Cholesterol/Content/Coronary-Artery-Calcium-Scoring

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/heart-scan/about/pac-20384686

(Julie) #7

I think your numbers (as much as you’ve shared) look good. I agree that a CAC scan is a good idea too–my insurance didn’t cover mine, but I think I spent about $150 for it and I think it was money well spent. Also, I HIGHLY recommend you watch the documentary Statin Nation before you do anything. It was an eye opener. BTW, my previous physician really pressured me about my high cholesterol, so I did the CAC to get him off my back. My score was ZERO! I now see a Functional Medicine doc who has a better understanding of how cholesterol works in my body.

#8

Nobody and nothing can ever make me take Losartan again. The side effects were so bad yet sneaky, I could have died from it. I ended up being diagnosed with COPD and my mobility was affected badly. If I hadn’t unintentionally run out of pills, I would have never known that they were the real cause of my difficulties with breathing. I much rather work with diet than swallow any pills. I feel sooo much better now, and my blood pressure is down too.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

A statin will reduce arterial plaque? Huh? That’s a new one on me!

LDL of 175 is fine, especially if your ratio of triglycerides to HDL is under 2.0. I agree, the coronary arterial calcification (CAC) scan is the only really accurate way to assess your cardiac risk.

BTW, the only reason that the current standard is to keep LDL under 130 is because the statin manufacturers have kept lowering the target limit in order to create more demand for statin prescriptions. No one has actually produced any evidence to show that lower LDL has any beneficial effect, and in fact a number of epidemiological studies have shown an association between low cholesterol and higher mortality, especially in women, and especially in women over 50. Yeah, it’s epidemiological evidence, so don’t read too much into the data, but they were large, well-funded, government-sponsored studies intented to show that higher LDL means higher cardiovascular risk. The fact that they seem to indicate the opposite tends to indicate that there is no realistic causality between higher cholesterol and increased CVD risk.

(Bob M) #10

That’s because it’s not true. Statins increase plaque.

(Bunny) #11

Strange things?

[1] “…Statins and C-reactive protein levels. C-reactive protein (CRP), a marker of inflammation, is a potential predictor of CVD risk, and statins reduce CRP levels by up to 60%. CRP reduction is independent of LDL-C lowering, and variation between statins in CRP reduction may play some role in CVD event reduction rates. …” …More

[2] CDEP: Regular Flossing Lowers Serum C-Reactive Protein

[3] Does Flossing Really Lower My Risk of a Heart Attack? “…In the study, the researchers decided to only test what they called ‘lifestyle modification’.

The participants were simply asked to floss their teeth at least every other day.

That’s it!

In other words, researchers didn’t have the participants change the foods they ate or the amount of exercise they did.

Just floss at least every other day.

After 6 months, all 300 people had their C reactive protein levels tested again.

The CRP levels for all 300 participants had dropped under the threshold that made them ‘at risk’ of heart disease!

While that fact alone is awesome, the researchers then gave the world an important piece of information. Researchers instructed the participants to stop flossing.

And when their CRP levels were tested again, guess what?

Everyone’s CRP levels had gone back up into the ‘at risk’ levels. …More

[4] “…CRP seems to predict the chance of having cardiovascular problems at least as well as cholesterol levels. A recent study found that elevated levels of C-reactive protein were associated with three-times-greater risk of a heart attack. …” …More

(Bunny) #12

“…“Patients prescribed the highest doses of statins, despite achieving low levels of cholesterol and demonstrating marked plaque regression, had changes in plaque calcification that were nearly double the changes in patients who received no statins, and greater than changes in those who received low-intensity statin therapy, both of which were associated with plaque progression,” says the study’s principal investigator, Rishi Puri, MBBS, PhD. …” …More

Wow!

That’s where Vitamin K-2 and a low sugar diet comes in handy?

I’d rather eat foods higher in Vitamin K than take a statin.

(Marianne) #13

Wow, that’s awesome! Thanks for your response.

I see my cardio again in March and will ask him then. If not covered, I will inquire about cost - where did you find that out?

(Marianne) #14

Me, too; I had horrible side effects with mobility. It was almost incapacitating. My legs were so sore, they would just ache and make walking difficult. That’s what led me to go off of it, at least a year before I started or knew about keto.

(Marianne) #15

Wow; enlightening - thank you. I always come here and feel better.

I can’t wait to read everyone else’s responses, however, I’ve already used up my three consecutive posts. Will respond later.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #16

Why wait? Why not call your insurance company and ask them if its covered? If it is, then call your cardio’s office now and get the referral done, so it can be in and done before March. If its not covered, then you can still do it before March and then you won’t need an extra appointment.

(Julie) #17

My primary care doctor recommended I get one because my cholesterol was so high and he was freaked out because I refused to start a statin. Looking back on it is funny now because he was trying to scare me and the zero score set him back a bit. His office set the appointment up for me and I paid the day of the scan. I live in Alabama.

(Boston_guy) #18

IHDA has a page listing CAC scan centers – https://ihda.ie/cac-scan-centers/

I got a CAC scan (and a zero score!) a few years back – cardiologist was impressed.

(Marianne) #19

Good for you!!! Was this after being on keto?

(Boston_guy) #20

No - it was what started me down the low-carb rabbithole :slight_smile: My doc’s constant nagging about cholesterol and statins (probably under prescribing guidelines) made me super anxious. Wanted some data instead of fearmongering. I’m much fitter from having addressed root causes.
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BTW, Triglyceride / HDL has a 16X odds ratio - huge, nearly in smoking territory! This is what really matters.

I’d look at Trigs/HDL way before LDL or Cholesterol. This patient of doctor Ted Naiman’s had “good” LDL levels, but an insane Trigs/HDL and advanced disease at 32. Doctors are looking at the wrong thing.


I’d recommend Ted’s recent appearance on the HPO Podcast for more context if you’re interested.