A veterinarian's take- our pets go through the same thing

#81

Our cats go out only at night and have done an amazing job eliminating our vole problem. There was a time when our yard was overrun with them. They also catch the occasional squirrel at night and leave me the spare parts. I feed mostly chicken, duck, and buy the occasional rabbit. The cats seem to supply the rest.

(Tricia Roth) #82

This has been a great thread. My 9 year old Havanese has tummy troubles periodically. Also, he’s a jerk. Ive already started looking into a different diet for him, and it’s nice to have nutrition guidance from a vet! I don’t expect a change in diet will change his attitude, but that would be nice. :laughing:

Also, our cat is a big yellow male. I’ve been afraid that diabetes is inevitable. Good to know I have options.

#83

We started our cat out by offering chicken wings. By the time he transitioned to full raw food he could eat part of a chicken leg. He had amazingly strong teeth and jaws for his age when he was killed. He bit right through my thumb nail while I was trying to get him to take his comfortis tablet a few days before. :face_with_head_bandage:

(Tricia Roth) #84

Ouch!!

#85

Yeah, it was unbelievable how far into my thumb his tooth went. Right through the nail! It hurt like mad.

#86

My two indoor (rescue kitten) cats only go out only at night too @Primal123 - around sundown - when the neighborhood is quiet, hardly any humans about and dogs all fenced in.

However “my” stray saintly neutered neighborhood cat friend who visits a variety of houses, demands his own, highly variable schedule as he visits various households per week. And if not let out, he starts marking all over and singing in very loud OPERA (practically). He enthusiastically even marked a box of crackers on top of the fridge once, alas, as well as other places. Up till recently, I’d heard of such behavior but never experinced it with neutered male cats. So… the dear saint must either come in and settle for a nap or be highly supervised, and he’s okay with that LOL. He likes to come in and nap or have a little water and visit and then be let out. He’s much loved, and uniquely social - almost fixated on visiting his human and neighborhood cat friends - and not a hunter as far as his many fans can tell - because he has a full booked social schedule :smiley:

My indoor cats have pretty much sorted their co-existence with the nearby neutered ferals - and when out for a few hours enjoy the night bugs and moonlight and run around on the roof - then come back in usually within a couple hours because they are so domesticated they prefer comfy cushions and filtered water, lol. After full moon nights though they linger outside and require to be called in for their breakfast early before the birds come around.

Also, by keeping the neutered ferals fed around my place, I’ve gratefully not noticed much bird slaughter at all - the wilder cats really seem to prefer to avoid humans and sleep/lounge during the day as long as they’re well fed by the humans and their meal deliveries!

However, once a young desert bunny was brought in unharmed at night by one of the indoor cats (not a nursling, but so small and precious) - thumping away in self defense. It was a close call, but all turned out well. I got to lounge and bond with it in a room away from the cats, and learned a lot about that magnificent species. I released it back into a nearby wild park and it hopped away to join nearby others of its kind. Their lifespan is pretty short due to being prey for hawks and owls - and further away, coyotes and others. I feel very lucky to have helped one live another day, and grateful that my indoor cat did not injure it!

Urban life is out of balance - and fraught. Finding ways to care for the living land around my own habitat involves learning the delicate and strong biodynamic cycles of many creatures and seeking the win-win-win solutions regardless of the unnatural circumstances. Biologically appropriate food for the pets and ferals, plus habitats to support the biology of other species. To that end, I have a big water fountain I got secondhand, with a good electric pump. The water sounds are really calming and cheery - and the fountain is a watering hole for birds at the edges of the days, and then midday in the heat, it is loved by many bees and other pollinators who have quite a time finding water in my area - and they then visit whatever garden flowers might be blooming. Am now proceeding with getting a water filter for the garden hose which provides the water for the fountain - because the creatures deserve it if I can afford it (and nowadays there are nanofilters which can remove the endocrine disrupters and pharmaceuticals that are in most municipal water supplies).

The web of life is so precious on this earth. Life wants to live, even while the natural world is under siege. Biologically-appropriate ways can heal us and help the world family - and that gives me joy. :sparkles:

#87

Um, Mary. If your cats go outside at night they are not indoor cats. And, as you describe, they are non-indigenous* predators that you don’t directly observe or control. So you don’t know what they are actually doing, except for the glimpses of them in the moon light. *Unless you live in the Middle East (where small size wild cat species are indigenous).

Unfortunately cats will instictively hunt for practice (some call it play, if it involves a toy), even if they are well fed.

Your post was very poetic.

#88

Um, Bear. Indoor-outdoor cats are a thing - and few people know much about nocturnal night neutered feline behavior as well as that of well-fed neutered feral colonies.

Enjoy the poetry, and ignore whatever doesn’t work for you, that’s fine! My life experiences and observations stand.

(Doug) #89

My wife’s greatly missed big old orange tomcat Sam used to go out at night. In the morning there would be multiple dead mice on the deck, lined up and spaced with amazing precision.

#90

And also @Tricia_Roth, there is something about big male orange tabbies. They have this funny reputation among many veterinarians as being not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree, but huge love monsters. Doug, it sounds like yours is smarter than mine.

(Tricia Roth) #91

He cracks me up every day! When I talk to my dog, the cat responds. I ask the dog if he wants out, and the cat darts to the door. I asked my dog to sit with me tonight, and the cat settled in beside me. Ive never known a cat who understands my words as well as a dog.

And he hugs my neck! He’s my son’s cat, and he put my son to bed, and then comes down after he gets him all tucked in. I’m not really a cat person. LOL.

#92

My apologies Mary, I thought you wrote that your cats were “indoor cats”.

I’m concurrently reading through the “I see fat people” topic thread and the interesting human psychology around people challenging (dietary) beliefs after they discover the benefits of an alternative (keto) to a previous held belief (low fat diet). Presenting facts to a non-believer appears useless. Presenting potential risks seems to harden their resolve to oppose. But show them a good documentary and they may start to sway. It’s the reason quite a few of my good friends became vegan, due to watching documentaries.

We can learn together about what domestic cats do, if let outside. This was a good documentary from only a few years ago.

(Cathy) #93

My dog, Zoe and I visited with her vet yesterday and came away with a season’s worth of Revolution. I feel confident that although the risk is pretty low in this area for lyme disease and heart worm, it remains to be seen how this season will go. I decided I didn’t want to guess and worry. Zoe enjoyed her easy vet visit!Zoe%202018

#94

Famous last words LOL!

Mine (the one in my profile pic), when he was younger would play fetch. He’d run after his toy and bring it back, or seek out various pools of water/drinks to drop it in. To this day I’m in the habit of keeping the toilet cover down because of all the toys he’d drop in there. All my friends were trained to cover their glasses of water/wine when he came close with a toy. So funny.

@clackley That’s not a dog, it’s a muppet! ha ha! So adorable. Glad your visit went well. :smile:

(Mary McNeight) #95

Today I started the process of switching my breeding golden doodle over to a raw Sojos diet with the addition of probiotics and salmon oil to help with developing brains.

There has been a lot of research done on how diet, maternal stress and maternal body condition can affect the developing puppies. There was one research study that showed 20+ gene mutations from cloned mice that were born from obese mothers when compared to the mouse that was genetically the same but was at a healthy weight!!!

I didnt spend $20,000 on science based education for nothing. I wanted to be the best dog trainer and breeder you could find. If you are interested in getting one of my doodles as just a great pet puppy or as a service dog candidate, you would be supporting service dog puppy raising program I am starting in my community. Information about the litter can be found at http://servicedogacademy.com/wp/imprinted-medical-alert-dog-puppies/

And just remember, the same information we have been talking about with regards to the diet of dogs absolutely applies to cats as well. Infact, cats need even MORE meat than dogs to be healthy.

Mary McNeight, CCS, BGS
Director of Training and Behavior

Service Dog Academy - www.servicedogacademy.com
Diabetic Alert Dog University - www.diabeticalertdoguniversity.com

Featured Speaker at Association of Professional Dog Trainers Conference 2013
Winner of Dr. Robert Curran New Trix Award 2012
Winner of PAWS Hero Pet 2012
Winner of APDT Train Your Dog Month 2011

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#96

Those are some good-looking dogs, Mary! What are their names? It’s wonderful you take so much care in the breeding of your service animals.

(Mary McNeight) #97

Luke is the yellow lab. He was named after Luke Skywalker. His biological sister is Leia of course. The doodle is named Lane, after Lois Lane from Superman. I even have a Leonard, named after Leonard Nimoy from Star Trek. Im a Sci Fi geek at heart.

#98

LOL that’s awesome! I like to give my foster kittens nerdy names. I had a litter of six kittens named after moons in the solar system (Pandora, Ganymede, Titan, Oberon, etc.), but naturally everyone thought I had picked names from mythology which makes sense. Then I had a litter of two kittens that I named Strange and Charm. When I posted them on FB for adoption, the occasional comment would say something like “Those are the nerdiest names I’ve ever heard.” To which I would reply, “Their names are a nerd test and you PASSED!” :smile:

(Todd Allen) #99

I think you’ll appreciate this “open letter to vets” regarding cat nutrition. Meaty arguments with some citations.
http://www.catnutrition.org/open-letter-to-vets.html

I believe it largely applies to dogs as well though dogs are less purely carnivorous than cats.

#100

Heck yeah! Thanks for this, I’ve heard of this site but hadn’t visited it. On the About page she references two of my favorite authorities on feline nutrition, Natascha Wille (of TC Feline, whose recipe I’ve been using to feed my own cats since kittenhood 18 years ago) and Dr. Lisa Pierson (of catinfo.org, which I linked to earlier, excellent resource).

Back in 2001, I was not a veterinarian, and I found myself in the exact same situation this author is talking about. It didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t make sense now. The good news for everyone is that a LOT more veterinarians (though perhaps still a minority) are on board with species-appropriate fresh feeding now, back then it was next to impossible to find someone to give you decent advice so that you had some confidence that you were doing it right. Around this area, it’s super easy now to find someone who will support and advise you.

And why are there so many more supportive veterinarians now? This movement didn’t start within the veterinary community, it started with pet owners who couldn’t find the logic in the conventional advice and knew intuitively that highly processed foods made from subpar ingredients couldn’t be a good thing. This change in the veterinary community is the result, and not the cause, of more people insisting on better nutrition for their pets. Very much like all the people on this forum and elsewhere taking control of their own health by informing themselves. I’m hoping we’ll have a sea change on both these fronts in the near future!