A question that might not be keto for this forum: is ketosis status black-and-white situation?

#1

Okay, I know it is quite a bad question in more than one sense, but I try to phrase it.

Let’s say a certain person can only have below 30gram of carb to be in ketosis.

So, for him, 40gram of net carb intake, 100gram of net carb intake and 400gram of net carb intake won’t make a significant difference, where 20gram of net carb intake will enable him to be in ketosis.

  1. Is this understanding correct?

The reason why I asked like that is because as much as I can give up all the obvious carbs(rice/noodles/biscuit/sugary drink), I am not sure if I can bear the food without the sauce that is nice but carby, so those sauce already added in the carb intake. Let’s consider the fact that the vegetable and the fruits have the carb as well.

Erm… The carb intake is, of course, still quite low(less than 100g), but it is quite more or less confirmed that I won’t be in ketosis, as the carb intake is not that low, thus I am then unable to force to use fat/ketone as energy, then I cannot burn fat… Then it is also quite annoying. As in, giving up obvious carb is good health, but that’s all: no fat will be burnt, and no weight will then be lost for good… <_<

#2

Added on: and if that understanding is correct, then basically giving up obvious is not helping much also, as long as you didn’t give up the carb and reduce all the way till about 20-30gram…

Not in ketosis = no chance to be fat-adapted…

(Stacy Blanchard) #3

I think there is a lot to your question. First everyone’s body and needs are different.
It depends on your over all goals. I have been continuing to learn all that I can through podcast, books and videos which has helped me see the way that I could, over time, become more metabolically flexible . I am going to begin to incorporate some whole foods back into my diet. Having said that, I still plan to wait and use that line of thinking for the time I have reached my goals. I have an adult daughter that has seizures and some other disabilities and she is also doing LCHF. For her because she is younger and has not had as long of the American diet, I fell she can better handle the reintro now. The way it is happening is still very limited; for example she can choose between a small apple or a handful of baby carrots (which she loves) once a day with a meal.
I don’t know how long you have been exploring this way of life, but if it is a short time, maybe it would be easier for you to start of simpler until you get to a point that you don’t miss those other things so much. Maybe just really focus on cutting out sugar and processed foods that contain vegetable oils. Or you could decide you will add an avocado every day to you diet. There are simple changes that can help you adjust. Then I highly recommend continuing learning. I feel like this is helpful to see the negative an positive effects of food.
Amazon Free with prime:
That Sugar Film
The Science of Fasting
Amazon Rent
The Magic Pill
Books:
The Big Fat Lie
Genius Foods
Podcasts
2 Keto dudes
Boundless Health
The Obesity code
The Keto Answers

I am sure people could add to the list.
Good Luck

#4

I understand starting off simple. But by the time I take enough steps, it is like half a year later, or longer… Then ketosis also needs at least about 2-3 months. By the estimation, I think it will be Christmas already. Of course, By taking those small steps, maybe I can get used to not having those little carbs as well, but I sacrifice the time yet I am not able to see result of significant slimming even after more than half a year…

(Alan Williamson) #5

The best way to tell if you are in ketosis is to measure your blood ketones. Macros are just guidelines. Further, if insulin is high, ketones will be low. Insulin is released when a person eats. So if a person eats 5-6 times a day, their insulin will likely be high. Eating 1 or 2 times a day makes a difference.

#6

Wait, even if I eat purely meat, insulin will be spiked also?

(Alan Williamson) #7

Yes. A person can test this at home. When their ketones level is measurable, eat some meat. An hour or two later, measure the ketone level. If the level goes down, it is because insulin increased.

#8

Then it means even if you eat when you feel hungry, but if you keep feeling in the starting phase of ketosis, you also need to fast through the hungry periods?

Because I have this experience before: I made the food myself, I made sure to eat lots of fat(butter), vegetable, meat and eggs. The nutrient should be enough, right?

But, after I eat one bowl(it is like a soup) and feel quite full already, I can get hungry within 3 hours again. <_< (well, I cooked quite a lot, actually. Enough for 2-3 bowls)

Enough fat, enough quantity(vegetable and meat), enough water(soup), enough nutrient(vegetable and meat)…

Or is it just because I like the food I made myself so much that I cannot control myself? It doesn’t seem so also.

(Kristin) #9

Eating as low carb as you can and adding in daily intermittent fasts will also help get you into ketosis. You’d benefit from reading and watching some YouTube videos, the science can be complex but the premise is simple: body will burn carbs first then switch to fat as long as insulin is low. Good luck on your keto journey!!

#10

But intermittent fast means I need to bear with hunger and fast through it? Or?

(Missy) #11

Don’t look at doing IF until you’re fat adapted. Hunger queues tend to subside once your body becomes fat adapted, thus making IF much easier. The main thing you have to work on when first starting out is keeping your carbs to 20grams or below.

#12

I know. I also don’t expect to do intermittent fasting at the moment(though I am kinda forced to, because even when I am hungry, I don’t have the time to look at the restaurant to see what to buy, thus starving myself not to eat first… <_< so I wanna get in ketosis and get fat-adapted as soon as possible that I can then give less care about eating.)

But then… points at the thread

(Todd Allen) #13

@cloudy, A weight stable person in normal metabolic health will tend to transition lightly into ketosis each night as their body transitions to running on stored fat. But many of us don’t fall into that category and our ability to do that diminished and we did not remain weight stable. By eating keto we restore our capacity for fat burning and we can reach a deeper level of ketosis and sustain it all day long. The 20 grams per day carb limit is suggested as a level that allows most people to sustain a significant level of ketosis, typically defined as > 0.5 mmol/l blood ketones. There are some people who find they do better restricting carbs even more and there are others that claim to stay in ketosis at much higher levels of carbs, perhaps in excess of 100 g/day.

In the end only you can determine what works for yourself. Some make their decisions based on how they feel or what is achieving their goals. Some measure results in terms of ketones or blood glucose. Aiming for the suggested limit of 20 g / day is a great place to start and establish your baseline response and then you can fine tune by whatever approach works for you. You don’t have to start at 20 g it is just a recommendation to improve your odds of success.

(Stacy Blanchard) #14

Maybe instead of thinking in terms of december or however long to get to somewhere, you think in terms of how well you can get. No one can answer your questions about how long it takes, how many days you will need to fast, how much protein, etc. Everyone is different depending on many variables. Learn and adapt. You can work you way through the info and figure out what will work for you through trail and error. If you plan on making this nutrition/lifestyle/learning apart of the reat of your life, then you have time to figure out all your variables and what works best for you and what makes you feel the best. There are some over all guides, but that does not mean it is a one-size-fits all.
I hope you find your way throught the weeds.

(Karen) #15

There are so many delicious fatty sauces.

K

(Diane) #16

@brownfat

Well said!

#17

Released, yes. SPIKED? No. Gotta remember many people consider ANY rise in insulin or glucose to be a
“spike” for some reason, that’s not the case.

(Diane) #18

I started eating ketogenically in September 2017. I had done some research and started tracking all my food intake. I tried cutting out the carbs and the first week my daily net carbs were about 60 grams per day. That level of change seemed EXCRUCIATING! But I noticed where most of my carbs were coming from and eliminated/reduced those foods. By the second week, it was pretty easy to keep my carbs under 30 grams per day. By the third week, I was well under 20 grams per day and haven’t looked back since. FYI, I didn’t have a way to measure my ketones until several months down the road, so I’m not sure when I actually entered ketosis.

I was hungry ALL THE TIME that first week (maybe the first couple of weeks). I think because I was no longer eating the carbs my body was used to burning for fuel. But I kept my carbs low and ate when I was hungry. I didn’t worry about meal timing or calorie restriction. I ate a LOT of food. I slowly became more satisfied at meals (probably because I was finally getting adequate fat). I soon noticed I wasn’t needing to snack anymore. After that, I slowly found I didn’t need to eat until later in the day…

For me, the initial change in severely restricting my carb intake was really difficult. The subsequent changes which have happened naturally over time have been remarkably easy. I think I finally became fat adapted about 5 to 6 months in, although I am still significantly metabollically deranged- with insulin resistance and chronic fatigue syndrome. But, I no longer keep a mental list of the foods I want to eat on my next “free or cheat day”. I have really simplified my menus. I have a different relationship to food, which I never would have thought was possible prior to eating ketogenically. There may be foods that I never eat again, like In ‘n Out Burger’s animal fries (:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:, a possibility that would have seemed impossible, even a few months ago).

This is what worked for me. I hope you find a path that works for you.

Good luck on your journey!

(matt ) #19

Meat/protein will increase insulin but I would not call it a spike. Protein takes time to digest so the rise would be gradual where carbs are absorbed quickly (Starting in the mouth) can make insulin rise quickly and cause a spike.

**This a giant rabbit hole you can fall into so get your science hat on!