5 months later

[MeganNZ]

Thanks @VirginiaEdie Edith! Anti-depressants and other psych meds have horrific side effect profiles. Thankfully I haven’t experienced many in the past but I will definitely keep this in mind if the joint pain doesn’t ease like it did last time I ate carni.

[scaperdude]

Bupropion. He’s prescribed me Zyban, which is the same drug as Wellbutrin, just marketed differently (for smoking cessation). So yay. 150mg once a day for 4 weeks then I can increase to 150 mg twice a day if needed.

Not only might it help with the depression but it can also help with cravings.

No guarantees here but my sister-in-law got virtually no benefit from the SRIs, while Wellbutrin worked well for her… I think she did lose some weight as well. Yeah, the drug is buproprion, so the brand name typically doesn’t matter. A generic should work too. Sometimes companies will use different binders, coatings, etc, but usually that doesn’t matter. I hope the Zyban helps.

I’m 2.5 week in now. Only side effect of the sudden and considerable change in what I’m eating is constipation. When I started carni last time I got not-safe-to-fart diarrhoea for about 6 weeks. I think I’d rather have that lol. I bought a different type of magnesium which should help.

When I get close to carni, is like the only time I get constipated. I personally believe for me at least, a little fiber, esp soluble fiber is important. That is when I get the easiest and most consistent movements. Your mileage may vary. On the magnesium. For constipation I would try magnesium oxide. It doesn’t really absorb at all - instead it draws water into the colon, which provides a laxative effect, used by a lot of OTC laxatives. Magnesium citrate may work a little, but will probably take more to work. Other forms like magnesium bisglycinate will get absorbed in the small intestine, and not help constipation.

New Zealand sounds like almost the perfect place for me. Never been. Right now it sounds so inviting.

[robintemplin]

Gotta put in my 2 cents worth regarding carnivore and constipation. I believe there is less waste with carnivore as my body uses almost all of it. Once a week is not unusual.
But as per usual… maybe that’s just me.

[MeganNZ]

Thanks for responding @scaperdude and @robintemplin. Re carni and poop, once my gut went through adaptation when I did 14 months carni in 2022-2023, I went every 3 or so days and it was small and very easy to pass. I’m expecting the same once my gut finishes adapting to the complete change of food. It’s a matter of sticking the adaptation period out. Most of my meds have constipation listed as a reasonably common side effect which is annoying and my current restricted mobility because my knees hurt so much could be another factor.

Thanks for the info on magnesium oxide. I bought some citrate because I need everything magnesium can help with, not just the help in the poop dept. Didn’t know about bisglycinate so thanks for the info, will steer clear of that one.

I’m hopeful the bupropion helps as an adjunct to the venlafaxine (SNRI). I wish I didn’t need to take anything but I’ve proven to myself quite a few times now how bad things get when I stop or significantly reduce the dose. Takes 6 or so months to crash and when I do it’s not pretty.

[PaulL]

When I get close to carni, is like the only time I get constipated.

When I went carnivore, I noticed two things: the frequency of bowel movements slowed, since there was less to eliminate. I also noticed some constipation at first–which I define as having to strain to eliminate a stool. But I learned from Dr. Anthony Chaffee to increase the amount of fat in my diet enough to soften the stools. His personal and clinical experience, he says, is that the liver makes enough bile for the body to absorb the amount of fat it needs, and extra fat passes through the digestive tract and helps soften the stools. He seems to be right, at least in my case.

I personally believe for me at least, a little fiber, esp soluble fiber is important.

I’ve noticed that a small group of forum members find they must have fibre, a small group find that fibre is detrimental to their intestines, and most of us are in a position where fibre doesn’t seem to either help or harm.

Personally, I feel a bit better when I don’t eat indigestible material, but fortunately it doesn’t seem to cause any harm.

[MeganNZ]

Update - 2.5 months since 1st posting.

Still eating carni, coming up 3 months. A few things are different from the 14 months I did, before stopping for 5 months. My appetite is definitely less. Zyban (bupropion) can cause this but it was less prior to starting the zyban and since stopping it. I ate 2-3, sometimes 4 pounds of meat a day last time, plus cheese, cream and greek yoghurt. The 1st 2 months this time round I was eating 1-2 pounds a day and now I’m eating 0.7-1 pound a day along with cheese, cream and sometimes yoghurt.

The constipation has persisted and I think a good 90% of the cause is the higher venlafaxine and adding in Zyban. I have to take stool softeners daily and every 5 or so days I take a stimulant laxative.

Weight loss had been nil after the 1st 3 weeks. I’m definitely getting enough calories so that’s not the cause. I decided to make my anti-depressant meds the same as they were when I did carni May 2022 - July 2023 to see if that makes a difference. Soooo I’ve reduced the venlafaxine from 225mg a day to 150mg a day and stopped the Zyban (which had made zero difference after 8 weeks anyway). I weighed this morning and have lost 1.2 kg the past week which indicates the meds were the problem. I’ll see where it’s at in a week when I weigh again.

I finally have a date for my hernia surgery - 28th of this month. Yay! It’s a recurrent incisional hernia following 2 incisional hernia repairs in January 2022. The top one worked, the repair of the one at the bottom end of the cholecystectomy scar failed after a couple of months. I am so sick of walking around with a bulge the size of a very large grapefruit. It’s gotten big enough over time it’s now classed as a difficult repair with a considerably decreased chance of succeeding. Damn hospital waiting lists. I’ll continue with stool softeners for a while post-op because constipation/straining could be disastrous.

Mood-wise I’m my usual fairly depressed low energy self but it’s bearable. No worse than it usually is on 150mg Venlafaxine and increasing it to 225mg did nothing. The psychiatrist wants to increase it to 300mg a day if the Zyban didn’t help, but I’m going to hold off on that for a while. If I continue to lose weight on 150mg a day that, in itself, is a bit of a mood boost - as well as pain reducer which will also boost my mood.

Pain-wise my knees are so munted reducing inflammation hasn’t helped much and walking hurts like hell some of the time. It helps my overall health and some of my less bad arthritis tho, which makes eating carni a good thing to do.

Thanks for reading

[MeganNZ]

Upcoming surgery update:

The consultant I am under had organized an experienced hernia repair surgeon to be with him for the surgery to show him how to repair my hernia because it’s not an easy one to fix. That surgeon rang me yesterday because he was looking at my CT scans and xrays in prep for the upcoming surgery.

The good news is he is very experienced, the not so good news is he was very frank about how hard it’s going to be to repair it, partly because of it’s size but mostly because the hernia is in the lateral (side) abdominal muscles. And, to make things worse, the main set of muscles involved have contracted making achieving a muscle closure impossible at the moment. So, the plan is to inject all the muscles with botox 4 weeks pre-op, to relax them enough to make the closure somewhat possible.

He said my liver is a bit bulky (I need to ask him what he means, exactly, when I see him in clinic on Monday but I’m assuming it’s fatty liver?) and he needs my liver to shrink a bit to facilitate the muscle closure, which will involve Optifast only for however many weeks. Bleh. I’ll do it but I’m a bit scared of how hard it might be not eating any “real” food.

He wants another very experienced hernia surgeon in theatre with him and said it will be a long surgery, probably taking all day. So apart from the delay due to needing the get the botox, there may be an even longer delay because of how hard it is for 2 busy surgeons to find a day they are both free. It took 6 or so months for my general surgeon and this guy to set a date that worked for them both. This is a real bummer but who knows, it’s a sub-acute hernia at the moement (several trips to the ER in an ambulance the past month) so maybe they can wrangle their schedules and do the repair soonish.

He said the hernia repair at the top end of the cholecystectomy incision has also failed and will need to be re-repaired but it’s still fairly small and won’t be a big deal. He also said, as diplomatically as he could, the surgeon who did the 1st repairs made a few cockups.

I’m glad I’m going to have 2 very experienced surgeons doing the op but I’m also quite anxious. I knew it was going to be a tough one to successfully repair but I didn’t know it was going to be this tough.

[robintemplin]

My goodness! I would be anxious too! It’s amazing you have multiple docs in collaboration.
Sounds like good news/bad news!
“Yay, I get three surgeons! Oh no, I need 3 surgeons!”

Keep us in the loop. Lots of people in your cheering section here.

[kib1]

He said my liver is a bit bulky (I need to ask him what he means, exactly, when I see him in clinic on Monday but I’m assuming it’s fatty liver?) and he needs my liver to shrink a bit to facilitate the muscle closure, which will involve Optifast only for however many weeks.

This is really frustrating! I understand wanting to follow doctor’s orders precisely in this case, but Optifast is utter garbage and any diet that restricts alcohol and fructose should have the same (NA)FL reduction result. Is there any reason he’s specifically insisting on Optifast, other than crash dieting for temporary fat reduction? It seems like horrible advice, frankly.

[Shinita]

I just a bit looked at Optifast and know little about it but no matter what is it like, it sounds horrible. For weeks. And surgery… I have no words but wish the best while knowing even the best will be tough

[MeganNZ]

Big LOL and thanks Robin! The phone call is still sinking in and my anxiety is increasing. Nothing I can do about it right now other than to keep breathing, keep eating nourishing food and focus on losing more weight. Thankfully I’m experiencing the keto lower appetite effect, so I’ll lower my fat intake a bit, keep my protein the same and monitor my progress.

[MeganNZ]

Thanks @kib1, and yes, it’s awful stuff! I’m curious why I even have a fatty liver, if that’s what he means by “a bit bulky”. I know genes can play a role, and I still have 12-15kg to lose so maybe that’s why. And maybe my recent 5 months eating high carb and some highly processed cr*p has caused it or made it worse.

I’ll talk to him about sticking the calorie intake he recommends eating carni pre-op instead of using Optifast. He may be happy to go with this option if I have success again on the scales when I weigh on Saturday, after 2 months of zero weight loss on the high doses of anti-depressants I was taking. Plus, I want him to do some tests to make sure it’s “just” fatty liver and not some other liver problem.

[MeganNZ]

Thanks Shinita