3 weeks into keto, looking for advice

#1

Hi all. Some info to start with. 50yr old, 6ft 223lbs started keto 3 weeks ago. Track everything I eat on myfitnesspal. Averaged 30gr carb, 160gr protein, 130gr fat, 1900 calories over that time. Lost 3lbs but didn’t really feel any different, thinking that was just fluid. Not just looking for weight loss but really all the benefits of being in ketosis.

Bought keto test strips a week ago, came back negative. Had to fast this week for a medical procedure. At 24 hours into fast I tested and strips showed medium ketones. Same at 36 hrs. After starting to eat again, i kept my first 2 days under 20 net carbs. However the tests have gone back to negative. I know these tests aren’t as accurate as blood tests but I did find it interesting the positive results during the fast and negative otherwise.

So, if I’m not in ketosis what do I need to do different? If the test strips are wrong how do you know you are in ketosis without bloodwork? I’m eating and drinking a few “dirty keto” low carb things - mission carb balance tortillas, IQ bars, propels water, zero sugar coffee creamer. But like I said above net carbs have been 30gr or less. Can those things keep you out of ketosis?

Any experience or advice is appreciated. Thanks

#2

Some people need to do very low with carbs to reach ketosis but usually your intake is good enough. Many can tell if they are in ketosis and others simply can’t.
And the benefits… I experienced none on keto until fat adaptation though I did low-carb even before. It’s still the case. Low-carb and mere keto feels the same, it’s different if I am closer to carnivore or if I eat much more carbs. And some benefits I would like (more energy) never comes, not even on carnivore (I get other benefits though so that’s nice).

Certain items can interfere with various things for some people, hopefully someone knowledgeable comes soon and talk about that. For me, ketosis was all about net carbs, apparently (there were more or less strong hints in the early times, that’s why I am pretty sure about it. now I can’t tell at all if I am in ketosis), that’s easy. BUT just ketosis didn’t give me much benefits, I had to go lower for that (with my plant carbs, animal sugar seems fine).
I personally experiment and see where I feel the best, not caring about numbers I can’t check anyway (tried to buy strips and failed and now, years later, they are surely even less reliable).

I would think you have lost at least some fat as 1900 kcal is a pretty low energy intake for someone with your stats (of course, these things are very individual, still, it’s unlikely yours are so low).
You lost little enough that it’s possible it’s almost all fat though if you are in ketosis, you are supposed to lose more water than that… At least that’s the usual thing, there are big individual differences, of course but I always heard about bigger water weight loss. Our bodyweight may fluctuate a lot too (mine is freakishly stable so the sudden water weight changes when I went back to keto or stopped it helped me to figure out if I am in ketosis, that was helpful)… For me, and it’s probably common, the water weight change (2kg in my case) came in the first 1-2 days while stable fat-loss has a trend so it was easy to tell them apart in my case. But for anyone, ignore the first several days and then you get bodyweight changes and if you lose fat steadily, you see the trend eventually, the more your bodyweight fluctuates, the later you can be sure it’s fat but it happens eventually if you do things right :slight_smile: And you see it on your body with your eyes and earlier on your measurements, loosening clothes anyway.

How do you feel? Do you eat enough to be nicely satiated most of the time? 1900 kcal works for some and too low for others. And too much for some smaller people but with your stats, I definitely wouldn’t think it’s too much food. If you ever had such an idea.

If you are very very curious and it’s not too hard, you CAN try going lower with your carbs I suppose but I personally would be patient and see what happens later. Very little time has passed. Sometimes benefits come after fat adaptation. Be comfortable with keto, eat enough to feel fine, maybe try to limit or cut out items you consider not so great but only if it’s not too difficult… IDK about you but just doing keto can be challenging in the first times so extra hardships may not be right at that time.

IDK what is a zero sugar coffee creamer but why? Isn’t proper cream - or if you use a minuscule amount so a box of cream would go bad, coffee cream in tiny package, you probably have those too… - is the best thing for a coffee? Or you have some problem with dairy? (I still would have better ideas, coffee creamer is some weird stuff, always was confused about it.) No idea about the other mentioned items.

Good luck!

(Cathy) #3

Welcome to the forum and congrats on deciding on a ketogenic diet.

When you use urine test strips so many factors can give you false results. Even things like hydration. Diluted urine is more likely to give a negative reading for instance. I would put little importance on them.

So it seems from how you feel, that you are not achieving ketosis and that seems to be due to what you are consuming. It might be wise to count everything and not do ‘net’ carbs. Plan a menu that is basic. Things like eggs, meat, fish, butter, very low carb veg. Count every carb and don’t net out for fiber. Give it 2 solid weeks and then see if you are feeling different or have lost more weight.

But don’t give up! If you do, you won’t ever get the benefits of a ketogenic diet.

#4

Thanks for the feedback. I have found it a little hard to stay on clean keto, those tortillas, IQ bars, propell waters, etc really help me in filling the gap with the low carb diet. However in looking at total carbs those tortillas add a lot so I should probably drop them. I will drop the creamer and start using heavy cream as I agree, they put various chemicals in that stuff. I will also try to cut back more on carbs, honestly I was pretty comfortable around 30-40 and 20 has been a challenge. If I have to stay under 20 for ketosis I’m not sure I’ll be able to maintain that long term. But will try over the next week and see if my results change.

As for how I feel, I felt good the first week on keto when I was around 30-40gr carbs. Since then I feel like I’ve started to feel like I did before keto.

As for my calories, I’ve been tracking my eating daily for a couple of years trying to lose weight. I find if I eat over 2100 a day I will start gaining weight. I think maybe prior dieting has slowed my metabolism unfortunately. I would expect 1900 should cause weight loss but unsure.

Between propel waters, LMNT, IQ bars and the occasional diet coke i do feel like a get a lot of fake sugars. These are technically zero carbs but i wonder if they could cause a problem as well.

If I am just low carb, say under 50gr a day, but not in ketosis, are there any health benefits? If the body isn’t burning fat in ketosis but not getting enough carbs, what’s it running on? Won’t i feel sluggish? Lose muscle instead of fat?

(Bob M) #5

Your body never stops producing blood sugar. You could fast for the next 30 days, and your body will still produce blood sugar.

They did a study of cyclists, high carb versus keto, and they keto folks were able to perform glycogen replacement.

If you’re only 3 weeks into keto, things might be different. Those cyclists were on keto a long time before being tested. There’s definitely a transition period, at least 1-2 months, maybe more, for exercise.

Some people don’t need to be keto still get a lot of benefits. It just depends.

#6

Definitely, for me. I did 80g net carbs before keto and it was much better than high-carb (and I felt well and healthy on high-carb but one can always feel even better :wink: or if someone can’t, wow, good for them). 80g was a noticeable limit for me while my ketosis carb limit wasn’t really noticeable, maybe in the beginning.

And anyway, I needed my low-carb years to be able to do keto. I needed my early keto times to be able to go even lower… I understand if 20g is hard for you but if you can try it for a little while, it may be informative. Even useful. When I have found my 40-45g net carbs (and up to 100g total, maybe? it’s way harder to track total for me and I didn’t care much so I don’t know but I ate plenty of sweetener and fiber in my early times) way too strict, I went and tried 10g (?) for just 1-2 days. I can handle the occasional very strict experiment, it’s fun and I never say I do it even if I suffer… I just try it, plan it, do it. Well the longer term impossible super low-carb day changed my attitude for good. I couldn’t look at my 40g carbs and see it tiny. Yes, it still didn’t allow me to eat enough vegs (back then. now I don’t particularly need vegs. sometimes a bit is nice but that’s it) and I still had other desires here and there but I still look at that carb intake with different eyes and it helped.

You are in the beginning still, you may find very low-carb items you are happy with so don’t need some carbier ones. These things may take a long time but eventually you may be able to go lower easily. Or not. Maybe you won’t even need it, who knows? I went lower and lower carb as time passed, sometimes I went in the opposite direction when I got tired and realized some of my favs don’t cause problems and focused on other, more important things…

I wouldn’t think you would need to worry about muscle loss if you eat in a small deficit and eat enough protein too (and exercise enough to keep your muscles). I am not more sluggish than other times at any level of carbs (except very high carb, I don’t feel so great there anymore…). When I ate high-carb, I still used up the fat I ate (that was my primary fuel) and the carbs too (except maybe a minuscule amount as I did gain super slowly for a long time), the human body should be able to do that… Getting energy from muscles would be the stupidest idea from the body, it only does that in dire need and just eating a bit too much carbs for ketosis to happen isn’t enough. At least I hope so but maybe some people function erratically there. Normally it shouldn’t happen.

(Joey) #7

I would add that urine is where wasted ketones are being excreted.

The longer you restrict carbs - and your cellular tissue mitochondria convert (adapt) to utilizing ketones instead of glucose - the less ketones will be lost (i.e., wasted) through your urine stream. [Urine is where stuff not being used by your body goes.]

As a result, ketone urine strips are both confused and confusing in their ability to tell you what’s actually going on. They are worthy of being pee’d on. :wink:

Sounds like you’re doing great! Congrats on this solid start.

#8

Thanks all! I will continue to do what I’m doing now, target 20g of carbs but at least stay under 30gr. Maybe in time I will be better about cutting back on some of those more processed foods. Should I expect to see some level of weight loss weekly or monthly? Other signs that I’m in ketosis?

(Cathy) #9

Signs of being in ketosis really vary from person to person. I would rely on the scale primarily. You said you lost 3 lbs. and I would expect that is fluid loss (liver dumps excess initially). Over time and adherence, you likely will see weight loss in small increments.

If you look for a list of signs of ketosis, it often is entirely negative aside from some weight loss but truly, once adapted (which is said to take around 6 weeks), you should have some very positive signs like better energy, brain clarity, appetite normalizes… lots of good stuff!!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

Firstly, let me welcome you to the Ketogenic Forums!

The famous joke on these forums is that there are two criteria for being in ketosis:

  1. Don’t eat any carbohydrate.
  2. Keep breathing in and out.

There is truth in this. As long as we are keeping your carb intake sufficiently low (we recommend a limit of 20 g a day), our liver has to produce ketones to replace the glucose we are no longer eating, or we keel over and die.

That said, there are some other considerations: First, you know that the urine strips are quite inaccurate. Moreover, the official definition of nutritional ketosis, serum β-hydroxybutyrate ≥ 0.5 mmol/dL, first promulgated by Phinney and Volek, is admittedly a bit arbitrary. They have both said so publicly.

The body enters ketosis within around 24 hours after glucose intake (i.e., carbohydrates) drops. This is a necessary mechanism for keeping the brain fed. Fatty acids are too large to pass the blood-brain barrier, but ketones are small enough to make it through.

Some tips that might help:

  1. Rigorously examine your food for hidden carbohydrates. Especially look for sugar under different names, such as “agave nectar” or “evaporated cane juice.” Any chemical with a name ending in ‘-ose’ is a sugar. Read the ingredients list, as well as the nutrition information, and compare the portion size with what you actually eat. Serving sizes are arbitrary, so if the amount of carbs is only 2 g/serving, but an adult-sized portion is actually 10 “servings,” that’s enough to use up your carb allowance.

  2. A limit of 20 g/day is a good rule of thumb, but it doesn’t work for everyone. People who are especially insulin-resistant may need to drop their carb intake even further, in order to get into ketosis. The reason is that the ratio of insulin to glucagon in the bloodstream determines whether the liver can make ketones or not. Glucagon stimulates ketogenesis, whereas insulin suppresses it. This is a delicately balanced mechanism for keeping glucose under control while keeping the brain fed.

  3. Fasting is a great way to get into ketosis. If you are not eating anything at all, your body is definitely producing ketones.

  4. Remember that, while ketones themselves are beneficial chemicals to have running around one’s body, the main idea of a ketogenic diet is to reduce body fat by encouraging the body to turn it into ketones. However, you still need protein and fat in your diet, and you shouldn’t skimp on meals. Eat enough protein and fat and a small-enough amount of carbohydrate at each meal to let you go several hours until the next meal.

  5. There’s plenty of advice on these forums for newcomers, so look around, see what you can discover, and ask your questions. People here will be glad to help.