Young people have sex, old people have ...... foooooooood


Food industry food isn’t always so great though (usually not). And even if it tastes good (as obviously that exists too, even for me), it has NOTHING on some pork roast or farmer’s market smoked pork. Or soft-boiled eggs when I fancy them (simple but lovely). Or sour cream. Or even a piece of nice fruit. (These aren’t all on blissful level just very pleasant, tasty, often tempting and highly enjoyable. I really love my eggs and sour cream but blissful they are not or just super rarely.)

Maybe there is something with my taste… But I don’t like lots of additives, they don’t taste good to me. I do need my own additions, the tasty, fatty items that make the food less cheap… I could make my bread cost a third of what it does but it would lose its tastiness. It’s still not good for me (somewhat tasty and tempting though) but it’s not made for me. “Mine” (well the stuff I bake for myself though I just should eat my eggs…) is even more expensive but much better. And food industry usually goes into the direction that isn’t for me, be it health or taste. So it’s easy not to like the items.

I bet most American food would be horrid to me :slight_smile: (Of course my taste changed a bit but not overly much except regarding a few things like vegetables.) Is it true even the bread is super sugary there? Ouch. But most Hungarian supermarket food makes no sense to me either. I am not raised on mostly overprocessed stuff, maybe that’s why I always preferred nice, homemade food (for a meal. for treats, I wasn’t that great but could have been better, I had tons of homemade stuff as those are the best). My inability to eat low-fat is something I was born with I suppose but I never will know.

Blissful food is rare. That is a special thing. I do mean bliss, not just something that tastes nice or I enjoy it (these two are different too). I probably need to be in the right state of mind for it to happen but of course, it still strongly depends on the food. It need to be exquisite, I don’t feel bliss just because I eat a tasty thing when I am really hungry! It’s hard to reach that level for anything but meat or fruit in my case but it’s not a very common occurance for either of these. Just not particularly rare now and it’s great.

If I have that, I avoid the item if possible, I am a hedonist and it would be an annoyance… I want satisfaction after I eat the right amount, whatever that is. This never can be combined with bliss. Bliss is high joy and satisfaction. Not feeling unsatisfied afterwards and getting into some stupid spiral. though maybe that can be too… :thinking: Yes I think I remember 2 items I had this problem with. Whatever, that’s not good enough for frequent use, maybe for occassional treats? I had no access to my items more than a few times a year (I lived very easily without them but when they were around me, I was doomed especially that I had no big problem with the occasional indulging). It was fun but it’s way better without them. One was homemade, the other wasn’t, it’s rare, Hungary has no such items I know of. There is a biscuit I like but it’s just highly tasty, not blissful and definitely not addictive. Triggering, yes, I have that problem with some non-satiating items, I can’t easily stop (I usually don’t try to stop as I run out of the item quickly enough). I dislike the sugar in it, among others so I simply started to develop my own version. It goes well but very slowly as I have too many days very close to carnivore when I am not interested and obviously can’t make sweet biscuits. Just my savory carnivore ones (they aren’t crunchy yet :frowning: that’s not easy). But when I will be ready, it will taste better than the original I suppose. And I almost never will eat it due to my constant flirtation with carnivore. BUT I will never ever feel the temptation to buy the original when it goes on a sale… And if the desire still hits, I will have the option. So it’s more like for my peace of mind.

But I wrote way too much about it already. I STILL think about food way too much, sadly. Though I enjoyed writing this. So many fond memories :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Food joy is so very good for me because it lasts WAY longer than the eating itself. Hours, days, weeks, years, maybe decades, at least when I remember… I find it very fortunate I don’t need to eat my favs regularly (not even every year in some cases) to feel they are in my life. At least the not important ones. I need a lot of items very regularly but that’s fine, I need food in general very regularly and they are all good food.

(Edith) #22

I’ve been keto for 7 years, long enough that I really don’t miss any of the junk foods and desserts that I used to indulge in. I feel pretty good, I’m in way better health than most of my friends my age, and I feel like I don’t have to skimp on the quantity of the foods I do eat. I think it is win-win.

Once you’ve really settled into this WOE, I don’t think you’ll be feeling deprived any more.

(icky) #23

I think I’m starting to formulate a plan that feels feasible to me, to address my menopause weight gain…

Eating Keto Mon, Tue, Wed, Thurs

Fasting Fri, Sat, Sun

On the days where I’m eating, being more mindful of how much/ how often I eat, asking myself “Does my BODY NEED this food?” (as opposed to “Do I (my brain) want to eat this food?”

Focussing on truly enjoying the food that I do eat and making it especially nourishing for my body

On Mon - Thurs, replacing one meal each day with a protein shake

Being a bit less “strict” about Keto Mon - Thurs than I have been these past months - allowing myself occasional treats - as these will be balanced out by the rest of my regimen - have to make sure that these are rare and truly a treat, something enjoyed very consciously

I think that feels like it will work for me (totally adjusted to my preferences, likes/ dislikes, what I’m good at/ what I’m not good at)

I think the focus in Keto initially about “eat to satiety” and “eat lots of fat” is good for adapting to Keto, because people tend to undereat, and especially undereat fat…

But I think my brain took that to sort of be a free pass - as long as you’re not eating carbs, you can eat “whatever” and “however much”… And in terms of comfort food, I think I did just that - A sort of childish/ emotional reaction, I guess - If I can’t have carbs, I’ll eat lots of my favourite cheeses and full fat joghurt and scrambled eggs dripping in butter, etc… Yes, that was okay for adjusting to Keto and for the fat adaption phase, but it’s not a helpful mindset in terms of trying to get to a menopausal level of weight I feel comfortable with…

(Mark Rhodes) #24

Nooooo. Forget about calories unless you are competing in Mr/Ms Universe. In fact if you must obsess over them, eat more not less. I just ran home for lunch, listened to a symphony of cicadas and ate pork belly and italian sausage with fresh mozz, cilantro and yellow pepper, fried in prime rib fat.

TMI Warning: At 60 I still put on a good show Saturday for my wife of 28 years who is 13 years younger.

Absolutely. I am in better health and ability to enjoy three sides of the coin ( there are three sides ya know, it is a cylinder, not a plane). What’s the third side? Let your imagination free!

(Robin) #25

Listen to @marklifestyle
Do NOT restrict your calories! That will sabotage your efforts.
Your body has to trust you not to starve it.
And…You have to trust the plan.
It works. Maybe not as fast as you’d like, but slow and steady is maintainable.


Some of us MUST eat little to lose fat, it can’t be helped… I ONLY ever lost fat when I ate as little as I could and it was little enough. And fat-loss always happened when I ate little. So it’s simple for me and many others. Carbs didn’t even matter in my case as far as I could tell beyond the very obvious calorie boosting effect of carbs. I avoid carbs to be able to eat less, among other things. I stalled the same on keto but without serious overeating, it was still healthier and cheaper.
(And now I eat less than ever and seem to lose fat so yay!)

I never had that. I was already used to minimizing fat (not like it did it well enough but it was my normal attitude) and eating as little as I can. I overeat especially fat. Protein too but that wasn’t a problem regarding fat-loss. But I still ate too much for various reasons.
I eat very modestly now for some reason, I don’t even want to, it just happens… But it’s still nowhere as strict as your plan, @sugar-addict. It’s sad if you need that level, I probably couldn’t do it…
I just have my fat fast and OMAD and it finally seems to work, great! I wish you the best, get the hang of it and don’t feel it too restrictive and get your needed joy from food, making food, looking at food… I enjoy it on many levels. Sometimes eating itself isn’t so great but I get the other things so all is well (anyway, one not so great day is fine as I wrote before).

IDK if it’s childish but very understandable if you ask me… If I give up things even if they aren’t important anymore, I want something new and shiny! :smiley: Or not new but still, some lovely indulgence… I managed to use something tiny in the beginning of keto, thankfully, I knew I have to keep minimizing fat as much as I can and some more.
Carnivore didn’t need this as I got meat compared to my old keto times and I liked my woe just fine (as long as I could stick to it, I went off for various reasons but came back almost right away).
OMAD has convenience and I am not starving before my meal at all so I feel it fine quite often. And fat fasts are nice and I get my super fatty favs.
It’s very normal to me that I can’t just put some restriction on me (even if I don’t feel it a bother, there is some focus, conscience and it can tire me out and wear me down) without getting my “new and shiny”. Childish or not, some of us need this and why not if we can make it without problems?

Of course, we never should starve! The right calorie deficit is important. Not like we can count that so I still depend on my body telling me what it needs. I vaguely suspect how I should eat though so I won’t starve even if my body gets confused and stops giving me urge to eat (but I doubt it could happen to me).
You say 3 day fast per week is much? It may be. I wouldn’t do that so frequently but I kind of understand if one tries that for a while - being very careful to the signs and eating very well on the other days. Oh yes, @sugar-addict, your fast is already a huge thing, I don’t think you should be very modest before and after, I definitely would eat very well on those days but I know I would badly need that. Good, nutritious, satiating food, not something that I can overeat epically but I wouldn’t hold back, I would eat all the meat and eggs I felt like. I am almost always a tad cautious with dairy as I easily eat zillion calories (mostly fat) if I just consider them free… (I never do that but even holding back, it often amounted to way too much. It took a long time to get used to a lowish amount. Or balance out the occasional bigger one.)

Too much restriction isn’t something some of us can handle mentally… I feel the strain even if I enjoy my restricted days but I have different restriction on different days and I am flexible, ready to change plans if I feel the need for a different attitude for the next day.

(Bob M) #27

I used to not eat a lot of fake sweets, but lately I’ve been eating this:

I make it with the chocolate protein powder and added some cocoa powder to it last time. I make it an put it into 4-6 glass jars, then eat like a pudding.

My wife and I have also been using her PSMF puddings, though the chocolate one is the one I like the best.


Have you considered HRT?

(Joey) #29

Thank goodness it’s not a cone - or we’d be back to three dimensions but only two sides again. :thinking:

(Mark Rhodes) #30

Hahaha…I love math humor, others find it obtuse.

(Joey) #31

Nah, we agree it’s acute.

(KM) #32

groan … :smile:

(icky) #33

Haha, thanks all… :smile:

So, I’m gonna try this approach that I outlined above… I’m stubborn and it feels right for my body so I want to see how it goes… If I fail miserably, y’all can tell me you told me so :grin:

I’m certain that I’m over-eating… Today, I had a moment where I felt “bored” and I thought “Hmm, I’m kind of peckish… I know, I could eat something…” I caught myself tho… thought about whether I was actually hungry - and the answer was no… I was bored and “fancied” eating something… Caught myself another time too, today, feeling irritable and thinking I’d eat something… you know, cos I was irritable (not hungry).

So I’m definitely doing un-conscious comfort eating… and by cutting that out I won’t be “starving” my body…

Anyway… I have no idea whether my approach will work for me but I’m curious to try it and so I’m just going to see how it goes and will adjust as needed.

I think menopause is just a totally different beast… and it needs different approaches than everything else… And yeah, I’m already on HRT… It helps a bit but it’s not a magic bullet that “fixes” menopause, unfortunately…

(Joey) #34

It’s rather amazing how many different feelings and memories we associate with eating - that is, other than actual hunger. :wink:

Celebrate with ice cream, cake, desserts, wine, beer, champagne, etc… we eat socially - or because “it’s time” - far more than we eat because our human bodies actually need nourishment.

And when we do, the specific menu items we’re inclined to devour are a whole other study unto itself.

Food for thought. :vulcan_salute:


I always know I am hungry but yes, sometimes it IS hunger but mental. I mean, it started mental and then manifested in the same hunger sign, it’s interesting. I realized it can be triggered, I often got hungry at lunchtime when my SO came home and I am sure it was only because of that (and it was near time to eat anyway but still, I could have waited without the trigger).
Now I have a family of hunger signs and I know which kind I need to heed to and which I can ignore :slight_smile:
If I strongly want to consume something, I will, no matter if I need food or am hungry - but I can choose something potentially more innocent. Like coffee or tea. I have this since forever. Eating is different but if I am not hungry or tempted or need in food, I very often just want to consume something, drinks may work if they have a flavor. It would be better to go for a walk or draw or whatever but sometimes that isn’t an option or not a good one… So I choose the smaller bad. Saying categorically NO to myself is the worst as it wears me down super quickly. I need to give something to the urge… Or persuade myself it’s stupid, well good luck to that but there is still a chance, sometimes…

Good luck, tell us your experiences! I like experiments even if they show something doesn’t work, we can’t know until we try in many cases (sometimes we do. first I choose something sane that seems doable for me and then test it. I get surprises sometimes).

I don’t really have that (sometimes a birthday/name day cake but we ate cake all the time anyway) except… “Peak chocolate”! :smiley: That is the chocolate you eat when you climb a hill/mountain. A hiker thing, at least in my family. Well we don’t do it anymore but it caused no problem at all as we already had to eat. It would be stupid to celebrate with food when we don’t want food… :thinking: Humans need sustenance (why is it spelled like this, why not sustain-something…? English is hard, no matter what people say and I am very good in Hungarian… well that has its quirks, I love it) very frequently (most of us every day!) so it’s easy to push another role and lots of expectation of joy on the already inevitable eating. The problem starts when we eat anyway and it gets too much. Or if we eat the wrong things.

For every person each… I loved virtually everything. I ate sweets a lot so that wasn’t really special to me (though chocolate was nearly always welcome as I didn’t eat that so often when I couldn’t make it. now I can so it’s not so fun anymore though still nice. but not good for “celebration”, not like I do that with food often. and I don’t do rewards, I eat whatever I really want without doing anything for it, only that is logical to my hedonist mind).

Alcohol is different as it has nothing to do with nourishment, it’s just joy - or for some, something neutral or even suffering to get drunk… Theoretically that would work for me any time as it has almost zero impact on my macros and I never drive nowadays. It it would be more, I would worry about consuming so much toxin, couldn’t care less about the macros.
(Half) a cold beer is nice in hot summer here and then. It would feel odd to give up it entirely, we already made it sparse (I mean, not one for every summer month for us two plus a few for an annual computer party), there are interesting beers and I get nostalgic… And there is no harm so I don’t resist. I could… But I won’t.

Eating when it’s time isn’t necessarily bad IMO. I eat at 5:30pm on a good day, perfect. Or a tad later, actually I eat whenever my SO has his dinner. Having a (somewhat) fixed time has benefits for me and it’s always a good time to eat, I am either hungry or in need of food already (my body likes fixed mealtimes, apparently. I used to get hungry around 2-3pm for decades and it was perfect except I tend to overeat if I start my eating window so early) and waiting more would have disadvantages anyway. But I get it, we shouldn’t eat JUST because it’s time. (Unless if we must as we don’t have access to food and peace all the time. Not everyone has the luxury to eat when it’s best for their body, it’s good we are humans and it’s usually easy to handle it.)
But if it’s different on some day or I change and enter another phase, I will change the mealtime, it’s not sacred just very, very convenient and logical.

(icky) #36

So, I wanted to do a 3 day fast starting yesterday, but yesterday morning I found out that my Dad has cancer.

I also (coincidentally) had a super stressful day because my car broke down, which caused a whole bunch of other follow-on stressors…

Around lunchtime, I decided that this was not a good setting in which to be fasting.

I decided that it was okay for me to eat (including comfort eating Keto food) under such circumstances.

Today, I’m wondering why my brain still so deeply associates food = comfort.

I mean, on an evolutionary level, it makes sense to me that we are hard-wired to seek food with lots of calories to ensure survival and that our brains are build to reward us with happy chemicals when we succesfully “hunt” or “gather” our food.

The fact that “hunting” these days means driving to the supermarket and “gathering” means walking to the fridge sort of messes up the whole motivation/reward cycle that evolution set up about aquiring and eating food…

So I guess in that very primal way, it makes sense that my brain equates food with “good” and lots of food with “even better” and anything that tastes delicious with “wonderful”.

I guess our unlimited access to (generally) inexpensive food sources really throws a spanner in the works of nature’s scarcity premise and its feast and famine cycles.

I guess if I view it from an evolutionary point of view, I shouldn’t really be bothered by my menopausal extra pounds… It’s such a modern-society way of thinking that we “should” all be thin. I had a lifetime of being thin… Maybe menopause is my time in life for being not-thin. Maybe I’m buying into society’s standards too much? Hmm… “food” for thought…

(Robin) #37

Oh…. This is all good. Good thought process. Good acceptance of what IS as opposed to society’s “shoulds”. There is freedom and power in knowing that YOU ARE OK with YOURSELF.
Took me well into my 60’s to decide my body is nobody’s business but my own.
I have pale saggy crepey arms and legs. And I am wearing shorts and sleeveless tops because it’s freaking hot.
It’s an honor to reach this age. Or any age.

Be kind to yourself. You got this.


Food can be pretty good (I don’t really use it for comfort but that’s me) but there can be another side. Not eating is great for a while but if I already lose my satiation and especially when I get hungry (though there is a cute type of hunger I kinda like and keep until it progresses but it’s a newer thing in my life), it starts wearing on me (limiting my food items while there is something tempting around has a weaker but somewhat similar effect). And if there is stress and all kinds of problem, I just can’t afford this extra burden. I can focus on some extra fasting or stricter things or quitting coffee or whatever I do on other times but when it’s harder, I like to make the eating part of my life easy and rewarding, at least. Well, more food is definitely WAY WORSE to me, just like indulgence when I am in a stressed, tired mental space where I don’t care about “strictness” (just my actual good rules)… My weekend was a mess, I almost have regrets… Eating right (not too much, not too often, good items) feels much better.

Well if you just eat a bit more than planned and okay-ish keto comfort food, that’s already much better than what I still do too often… So congrats to still behaving :slight_smile: Oh and you DECIDED… It took me ages to reach the level where I made a conscious decision instead of “accidentally”, impulsively grab something when I just had enough and couldn’t care for a while. You make decisions, you aren’t too strict and make your life harder, you aren’t even anywhere near fat… You seem to do right. Maybe there are things interfering, you aren’t perfect but no one is.

Once I have read a shocking thing in a book, the author thoughts no one needs to see old naked limbs. How stupid, ignorant and unjust is this? Summer is hot and people have bodies. If mean, ugly people may and do show their mugs (and personality), anyone is allowed to show their arms or legs, at least :smiley: Or the lack of it. It’s not their problem some people only want to see able-bodied young beauties. They exist too so all is well.

I still have young not muscular woman arms (my biceps look better than before… if I flex it, otherwise it’s not noticeable… yeah, I have a long way to go)… But I do try to develop them. Because I like that myself.


Actually was responding to OP

My impression was that OP did not have to limit eating until recent menopause. I have had to watch what I eat since I was a teenager and I would get these random weight gains. I have never done the 1-2 lbs per year that most normal people have, instead when I gain weight it is 10-20 lbs at a time

OP sorry to hear about your Dad, speedy recovery.

I think we have these controls when things are going ok and then something sets us off and it is simply too much mental energy to deny. Although when I get really stressed I cannot eat but mildly stressed is another story. Had that recently, things were going ok, was not planning to have dinner and then had to help one of my kids with something a little stressful and it was just too much at that point to skip dinner in those circumstances

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #40

In my case, it’s the same as drinking my favourite Scotch, and for the same reasons.

If one’s pleasure comes from sugar, then the answer to those questions is Yes.

However, my experience since going carnivore is that I am far less vulnerable to the pleasure of sugar, because I enjoy my meat. The meat enjoyment is a lot calmer and less stimulating than the sugar high, which is quite jangly in comparison. It’s not the bliss of eating fine milk chocolate, but rather the pleasure of eating good, nourishing food.