Why do some foods make us feel bad?

(Chuck) #63

No it isn’t some of us can’t be strictly keto. I manage by doing a combination of reasonably low carb and intermittent fasting. The combination keeps me in ketone most of the day. By doing clean fasting between 16 and 22 hours a day I produce ketones most of the day. And the fact I do what I call reasonable low carb helps more to improve my health.

#64

Hi MattWisti, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon appears to think one also isn’t in ketosis on a carnivore WOE, because of the high amount of protein. Organ meats, which I’ve now begun eating, are incredibly nutritious, they’re also fairly higher in carbs as I understand it than muscle meats. It is also important to differentiate the effects of ketosis upon men and women, as I believe it does matter, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon believes ketosis could potentially aggravate or even bring about thyroid issues in some women, due to the stress ketosis puts on their bodies. Again, we’re all different, and one WOE does not fit all. My WOE is definitely much more carnivorous than keto, if one looks away from my consumption of raw milk and tiny amount of raw, local honey. The only plant I consume is my coffee. But if I was told the carnivore WOE could put me out of ketosis, yet my body was still thriving on eating these foods, I would absolutely go on (1) how my body felt (2) whether even without ketosis my body would still remain in a state of less inflammation, my main prerogative is to heal my gut.

(Doug) #65

I don’t see how this can be. Only way, there, to not be in ketosis is to not be eating ‘carnivore’ in my opinion. While there may be some effect from a really relatively high protein : fat ratio, I don’t think it could even remotely approach “no more ketosis.”

One important factor here is that coming from a ketogenic diet, our response to protein is vastly different than it is on a carb-heavy diet. While when eating a lot of carbs, protein can have an insulinogenic effect - it rather adds on to what the carbs are doing - when we’re not eating many carbs then that does not happen.

If you want to see the actual mechanisms and a better explanation for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU&t=3s

" Dr. Benjamin Bikman - ‘Insulin vs. Glucagon: The relevance of dietary protein’ "

(Chuck) #67

There are as many options and opinions as there are individuals. Not even the doctors can agree on what is a good diet and what isn’t.
I recommend reading the research yourself from all sources not just what you want to believe. Depending on ancestry the food requirements will be different, if you don’t believe look at DNA results on different people from different countries and ancestry backgrounds. There is even some evidence that eating for your blood type has merit. My ancestors were a mixed bag seeing I have ancestors from almost all over this world. The only thing so far that I have found is that wheat is an issue for me and maybe oats. I also have issues with artificial sweeteners and I stay away from highly processed so called food.
Everyone I hope you find what you are looking for, but when you quote a single source or person you aren’t getting a full complete picture.

#68

How could I realize? I will be healthy but I won’t have any idea if I would be healthy eating way more carbs. But I suppose not, I clearly feel better eating very low-carb from plants so I do that most of the time. I can’t go back to high-carb ever. Not even my old low-carb diet anymore.

But it’s me. There are healthy, fit elder people on high-carb diet too. We aren’t all the same and genetics matter a lot too. They can’t handle super bad eating, of course. NOT eating keto definitely isn’t super bad eating for many (I guess most) :wink:

#69

Hi Chuck, I definitely believe our ancestry matters. I am norwegian and my ancestors would have eaten a lot of meat and fish and raw dairy, they were farmers and hunters and fishermen. Which is why I believe I thrive on all these foods, beef, lamb, organ, raw dairy. I remember the fierce joy I felt as a child feasting on a sheep head which my dad brought home, it’s a delicacy. I grew up eating a lot of lamb and beef, and I thrived on those foods. That was my childhood, when I knew how to follow my instincts. My adulthood was spent in idiocy buying into the low fat craze and eating a very high carb diet. And of course I got very ill over the years. My whole body lets me know a carnivorous WOE is what it wants, not keto. I tried my fruit experiment, I tasted a tiny piece I’d cut from a mango, and after one taste, I just didn’t want more, nor did I want to repeat my fruit experiment. Already I have a bit of an aversion to sweet things. So anyway, yes, who my ancestors were I believe makes a big difference.

#70

Oh, lucky. My childhood was pretty nice but I mostly had vegetarian food. It was very nutritious, very much and extremely tasty but seeing my body’s response to various level of carb intake, probably far from ideal even without all the sugar I consumed… Sigh. Stupid modern eating habits :frowning: It took some time until I realized I need to change but well, Mom and Grandma or my aunt never did… I went low-carb at 35, it’s not THAT bad though I wish I would have happened earlier.
And I mostly had chicken in my childhood (every Sunday), not what I would have chosen for myself… Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I was fed steak or salmon… Or at least more pork…
But I have heard about very miserable food options for kids so I am glad it wasn’t nearly as bad for me.

Not so surprising to me. Mango is very sweet and carnivore changed even my relationship regarding vegs, fruits, chocolate and peanuts… It’s amazing how drastically we can change sometimes.
I always loved sweet things and I still definitely don’t dislike them but I only can handle a tad sweetness. Barely anything handles sweetener at its point, many things are sweet enough to begin with. I still eat sweet desserts occasionally (I don’t often need my desserts being sweet but it’s lovely sometimes) but the sweetness usually comes from dairy.

(Chuck) #71

I grew up with, beef, dairy, pork, all types of vegetables, melons, and fruit. All freshly grown and prepared. Home made butter, buttermilk, preserves, jams, pickled, salt pork, and all types of smoked meat. Not much fish except freshly caught, catfish, bass, and crappie. I also hunted with my dad and uncles for deer, squirrels, ducks, turkeys, etc. My meals were always very balanced with home cooked meat, beans, vegetables, dairy, and home baked breads, with wheat and cornmeal. We had fruit fresh and preserved. I never had any issues until I was introduced to industrial processed so called food. I forgot to say we normally ate 2 meals a day each separated by close to 12 hours. Breakfast was really early before dawn and the evening meal after all of the day’s work was done. If it was daylight we were working, no time for food or snacks, but we always had plenty of cold water available.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #72

This principle needs to be employed carefully. It depends on whether the “single source or person” is right or not. A single voice speaking truth outweighs any number of advocates who are speaking lies. The trouble lies in trying to figure out who’s telling the truth, but once we do so, we no longer need to listen to what we know is at best gravely flawed information and at worst lies.

For example, I watched a video by some “expert” on diabetes who claimed that diabetes is caused by eating beef. Should I have continued to listen to that load of bunk, even in the interest of “hearing all sides”? I still think I was right to abandon that video once I heard that remark.

(Chuck) #73

I disagree, never trust a single source, and never accept the word f a single person, research everything you can, and verify the facts and if possible compare it to your on experiences. I learned the hard way many years ago to never take the word of a single person or even a single research article. There isn’t a single person that is perfect and never makes mistakes.

(Doug) #74

Indeed, of course not.

It depends on what is at issue. I’ve seen individual sources be right in the face of a multitude of deniers. I’ve seen individuals and groups maintain that something is true when it cannot be - and when it is demonstrable that it’s false, by mathematics, logic, rationality, physics, etc. That’s the thing - is it objectively provable or not, and if it is, can we thus prove it at the current time?

There are admitted vast differences in subjective opinions and individual experience. I’m guessing the most common error here is generalizing from the particular, as with “I did it this way and I like it, so that must be the right way for everybody.”

Meanwhile, “this is my experience,” or “I like this…” - well now, those are pretty hard to argue with.

#75

I listen to a lot of different people and sources as well as try to do my own research when I have the time and I find they all have some wisdom to share, but it doesn’t mean I agree with everything they say. I read Amber O Hearn’s blogs, and find it very interesting. I also listen to Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Paul Mason, but I disagree with them both regarding their views on milk, and I feel they do wrong in not differentiating between raw, untreated milk and homogenised, pasteurised. Raw milk does not fatten you up, at least that’s my own experience, that it rather does the opposite. I also disagree with Dr. Paul Saladino about various things, but I see the sense and wisdom in other things he says. I actually agree with him regarding coffee, but I just haven’t been able to quit it yet. I went cold turkey, and lasted a day. So instead I’m cutting down.

Although I like to listen to a lot of knowledgeable people, I will always listen to my body more, it gets the last vote. Another thing I don’t agree with Dr. Paul Saladino on is that organ meats must be eaten raw, and eggs must be eaten raw, to retain their micronutrients. Dr. Ken Berry has the opposite view to this, stating cooking eggs sunny side up brings out the nutrients more. As to liver I like to cook it till it’s light brown on the outside, I cook it very lightly just for a few seconds on each side in butter, leaving the liver pink and raw inside. But for Saladino to state all organs must be eaten raw, is a great way of putting people off organ meats, especially when they are not used to the idea of them. Saladino does appear to take a more extreme approach to things, and say, well this works for me, so this will work for everyone. Dr. Ken Berry has a much more sensible approach, and you really get the sense he wants to help his patients, but even so, he’s most likely making a lot of money on his dietary advice, books, and youtube videoes. Dr. Paul Saladino has probably already made a fortune on his. That is not to say they don’t have wisdom to share, and at least Dr. Ken Berry seems more approachable in responding to his listeners.
Anyway, I agree with Chuck, it’s good to check studies and do your own research as well as listen to the lowcarb and ketogenic researchers, but ultimately it’s more important to listen to your body.