What causes 'hereditary' high cholesterol and heart attacks? Can keto help?

[robintemplin]

@ctviggen I get monthly coagulation labs since I take an old-school blood thinner.
It’s a Protime/INR test but they only pay attention to the INR for how fast my blood coagulates. Cheap. Quick. Results in minutes.

[PaulL]

Personally, I’m more concerned about coagulation than LDL. But I don’t (1) know how to measure this and (2) know how to reduce it.

(1) HbA_1C is one measure, given that greater glycation means greater coagulability, but how to measure one’s genetic propensity, I don’t know. In people with FH, it has to do with their variants of fibrinogen and factor VIII, but there are other proteins and enzymes involved with clotting, and there are probably a number of different genes regulating them.

(2) Keto/carnivore, for sure. Plus things such as aspirin.

[Alecmcq]

Keto/carnivore, for sure. Plus things such as aspirin.

This. I think to “thin” the blood (ie make it less coagulating) the recipe is zero carb and aspirin. If I had a higher CT/CAC scan score I would be taking aspirin.

[ctviggen]

@robintemplin Thanks, I’ll look into that test.

Not sure about aspirin. The studies I’ve seen indicate the benefit of aspirin is small and the detriment (mainly, internal bleeding) is relatively high. As always, it’s complex.

Here’s one where aspirin shows a benefit for people with high lp(a):

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/JAHA.123.033562

But then this one shows more detriment in people with low risk:

Coronary Artery Calcium Scanning and Net Benefit of Aspirin in Prevention of...

A similar conclusion here:

Aspirin in Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Events

I tell my doctors that I take aspirin, but I never have.

[robintemplin]

“I tell my doctor I take aspirin, but I never have.”
Made me laugh.
I tell my eye doctor that I wear sunglasses but I never have.

[kib1]

Sunscreen. And daily flossing. But I don’t.

[John_Westerdale]

ent

Stabilization of plaque is one objective of crestor ( rosuvastatin calcium). Good?? For me, my mind went off. Not a match. Seems it turns off something else ( for me?). Id read a lot about Trodusquemine, and see it’s wonderful promise, and human compatibility seemed pave a path to better health… MSI-1436 is the material. Let’s see if our new leader will find this as part of his solution!! Dr Lustig ( YouTube - check his “ultimate guide”) speaks a lot about HDL/triglyceride ratio. We can’t yet test for remnant cholesterol. That’s the one that does correlate to CVD as I’ve read. Lpa and Lpb are interesting other developments in CVD development. Reverse cholesterol transport is another angle, where cholesterol is removed from arteries.

[Bellyman]

When I was doing standard keto my total cholesterol was usually in the 190-210 range, which I was fine with, my HDL was always good, my LDL was usually a little high vs “normal”, when I started playing with Targeted and Cyclical keto, which I still do a hybrid of now, my total cholesterol the last 2yrs or so it usually in the 120-150 range, so almost half!

I might be late to the party, and this might be rehashing an old topic. If so, point me to where it’s already been laid out and run over by interstate traffic for 6 months or more. LOL!!

Would you be interested in fleshing that out a little bit? I’ve not had a cholesterol problem but am curious what the “Targeted and Cyclical keto” and the “hybrid of now” looks like in practical terms.

Cholesterol numbers are more easily nudged in one direction or another than one might think and even doing something like eating a sleeve of Oreo cookies every day can apparently lower one’s cholesterol. (And I’ll add… I do not have any Oreo cookies, do not want any Oreo cookies, and have no intention of eating another Oreo cookie, ever.)

[lfod14]

Targeted Keto is using a fast digesting carb prior to workouts for an energy burst and a little glycogen replenishment, since that’s our muscle’s fuel. Typically, it’s done with Dextrose, Cyclic Dextrin etc. Most people use around 20g pre workout.

Cyclic Keto is eating normal keto, but then doing a carb refeed every couple days or as needed to replenish muscle glycogen, when your liver stores glycogen it immediacy starts burning in back off, but once it’s full and your muscles get it, they keep it they burn it back off, so for most, a couple of days with it.

Both of them make sense for somebody that’s into lifting or doing glycolytic workouts, I started with targetted, tried cyclic, then landed on doing both.

So in the AM, I’ll have my pre workout carbs, go to the gym, lift for 1-1.5hrs, post workout I’ll have my shake spike with dextrose (drives more protein and nutrient in) then it’s normal keto the rest of the day. Every couple days I’ll eat a higher carb meal (still cleaner ones, not crap or I’ll have sugar cravings) to put al little more fuel in the tanks. That’s pretty much it. I’d guess I probably have my glycogen storage at around 75-80% doing that. When I have less or more, it’s pretty visually noticeable on me, T-Shirts are more fitted, sleeves tighter, in a good way, but I basically go by feel and visual. Takes some playing around to find the sweet spot.

Biggest one for me, and seems to be the case for most doing this, is you really gotta keep the carbs clean, not only is it better for the end goals, but I can eat oats, sweet potatoes, rice, my low carb bread which is a staple (love sandwiches) but if I eat crap sugary carbs, I’ll have a day, maybe two, then the snaky-ness and crappy carb cravings will start up, appetite (which is already hard to control, and I’m already on Semaglutide to help that) will go through the roof. So it’s built in punishment from screwing up.

[Bellyman]

Thanks for sharing. I kinda get the general idea.

It does kinda make sense that it might work for you. The thing that stuck out to me was that you didn’t say like 100g of carbs, it was 20g. I kinda think to many, 20g of carbs is somewhere in the upper limit range of “noise” in their keto diet and wouldn’t necessarily be “cheating” even. I would think someone with more of a carnivore thing going on might be a little more worried about 20g of carbs.

Just for context, I had 6 eggs for breakfast this morning. According to what I read, that would be close to 3g of carbs on the low end, over 4g of carbs on the high end (depending on who you use for info) just for the eggs. And adding the cream in my coffee, that probably adds another 2g or so (yeah, I like a little coffee with my cream).

I don’t think it would be difficult to find 20g of carbs. Even a bit of low-carb veg would probably get you there, wouldn’t take much.

[Shinita]

Indeed, 20g is easy to get (especially for us who love our cream and other not zerocarb dairy), I often go way above without any help from any plants or fungi… Eggs don’t give me very much (5-6g is rare from them) but dairy, that brings it like crazy. I touch some yogurt, that and my very few eggs already brings me 20g carbs. I wonder if they are good enough for targeted keto though, I never did that, never felt the need. I have most energy well fasted so I never eat before my workouts - but it’s just lazy almost beginner me, I don’t do it seriously enough yet. I definitely wouldn’t worry about a little sugar around my exercises, no matter what kind. The exercise, not the sugar, of course we shouldn’t eat unhealthy crap if possible. Even if we all define that differently

Even a bit of low-carb veg would probably get you there, wouldn’t take much.

True. Once I made a strict paleo day… I tracked 208g carbs and the main culprit was low-carb vegs It adds up quickly if someone uses the amounts I did. I just couldn’t stop in time if it was low-carb vegs. Tasty, rich high-carb ones (I mean, carrot, peas…) were better but of course I had to be careful there too.
It may be better to eat something more dense and tinier before workout though, IDK but as I wouldn’t want to eat there, 1-2 bites would be way more logical and maybe a tiny sugar (and starch? IDK what the carbs in different vegs are) in a significant amount of fiber isn’t as effective when we want the energy quickly…?
20g sugar sounds so very tiny, I wonder what different people’s experiences are regarding that…

[PaulL]

even doing something like eating a sleeve of Oreo cookies every day can apparently lower one’s cholesterol.

It may lower LDL, but it also is likely to raise triglycerides and lower HDL as well.

[Bellyman]

Definitely… wouldn’t ever want to use Oreo’s as a health food. But I did find it quite amusing seeing what a garbage food did to someone’s LDL. Yeah… I don’t remember the news articles talking about other markers.

It’s been a while since I looked them up on YouTube but I remember some of the Dave Feldman talks where he basically “hacked” (and manipulated) his cholesterol numbers. They were interesting.