Went to my new/old doctor today - was I too harsh?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #22

I agree with the doctor, to the extent that HbA1C is a better marker of diabetes. But the notion that serum insulin has nothing to do with diabetes itself is absurd. Furthermore, given that there are plenty of non-obese patients with diabetes, it is obvious that adiposity does not cause diabetes. As Peter Attia pointed out years ago in his famous TED talk, diabetes and obesity are linked, because they have the same root cause, but one does not cause the other.

(Denise) #23

Well said Jim, I belong to a senior forum as well and it’s hard to read about some of their issues they are still trying to beat with MDs or other types, pushing pills, pills, and more pills. I think I mentioned IR once and no one even replied, mostly because I know they haven’t a clue what it even is. The info is out there, but we have to sort of “see the light” on our own responsibility for our health. For years I either didn’t go to the doctor, or I blindly took a prescription. I literally knew nothing about alternatives, and thought these “health nuts” were just that. Now I’m pretty much a health-nut and I guess it wasn’t too late, thank God, for me to actually have more quality of life at my age :slight_smile:

Also, thank you for mentioning Endocrinologist, I had to look up that type of doc, but I’m going to see what the “disorders of the endocrine glands and hormones” are and whether or not my insurance covers seeing a doctor/Endo!

(Denise) #24

Exactly, because a few people I know were shocked I had T2 diabetes because I am 5’2", and was at 140 lbs. I had a lot of fat around my mid section, not telling how much inside on my organs. I’m teetering at 118 now thanks to Keto, and the people here, youtube etc.

Even I thought only obese folks got diabetes. My grandmother had it and I remember her using her little saccarhin pills. I don’t know how she did it but she died at about my age. I know she was still eating things I know “not” to eat now ;( My mom died at my age, 69 but she wasn’t diagnosed with diabetes, she may well have been diabetic, but complications of cigarettes and alcohol, along with unsafe foods :sweat:

#25

I am only saying this thru my personal opinion of what I think is going on out there for those doctors having to deal constantly with patients ‘having no clue’ coming into their appts with no idea other than ‘fix me’ and most ‘want a pill’ and have 0 knowledge of nutrition and body functions and science ‘as US WHO KNOW see it!’

Mother inlaw’s diabetic Dr had to be tearing his hair out.
He said, you can go to that fast food place with your friends and have your usual fun with them and breakfast, JUST DO not eat the biscuits. Don’t eat those fried taters. Have some eggs and sausage and bacon and leave the carbs behind…she did not do it, even tho he explained point blank about carbs and sugar and how it is converted and blood sugar and I tell ya, this woman lliterally absorbed 0 info from this Dr. He tried cause she told me he ‘gave her tons of info’ she had NO idea he chatted about and he gave her brochures and fact sheets which she ‘kinda read’ a little but had ‘no idea about’…so I tell ya at some point, if a Dr. I can see them saying, BLECK but if a Dr. hits someone who asks VALID real questions and wants some valid real facts back etc…well, yea, that Dr. should have those on hand, cause any Dr. that hems and haws and can’t answer a patient who comes in with real questions, yes, does need to be dismissed. Shows they don’t know and yet the patient does…ugh.

but I find that more off than the other. I think more are like my MIL, while being in her late 50s starting this journey for her she put 0 effort into her health so?

but I see this now in the young’in population. pill me, fix me, I don’t wanna know anything about it but then ya got ‘US’ that will wanna know so if the Dr can’t answer as we know from our own knowlege, new Dr time but I feel alot of Drs just treat the patient that doesn’t care, just pill me up and fix me, and that is becoming extremely rampant as we all know.

it ain’t just the docs pill pushing, it is the patients that wants the pills and no responsibility to put those real changes and actions into play to make them happen.

patients are just as ICK as those docs out there :slight_smile:

so we can’t truly lay it all on the doc truly…

(Bob M) #26

While I question the benefit to measuring Lp(a), its sole purpose is as a cardiovascular risk marker. Has nothing to do with diabetes. The vast majority of Lp(a) is genetic.

I think it may be possible to reduce Lp(a) by eating a high saturated fat diet, relative to other diets. I have not tested this, mainly because it’s a challenge to do, testing is expensive, and I question the value of a marker that tells me I’m at high risk for cardiovascular disease, when every other marker says I’m not.

But that doctor is a poor one.

(Denise) #27

This is why I love my MD, he answers what he can, and he is always willing to send me to another doctor. No, it is definitely not all doctors, and certainly not all their fault. I can’t agree more. He gives me whatever tests I can afford (insurance pays etc.) and he is so pleased with my progress. I think sometimes he is just covering his butt to make sure that I’ve been offered prescriptions. He knows now that I want my tests done (like HbA1c’s) but I want to stay on what is working for my T2. Of course he agrees I don’t need the metformin, for example. I doubt very many of his diabetic patients want to do what many of us are doing with keto :wink:

(Doug) #28

:smile::neutral_face: True, Fangs. I also think it’s a huge amount of people, probably ‘most’ people now. My dad, born in 1937, always has been an “I want a pill” type, and he has said exactly that. He’s had cancer but never any chronic/lifestyle problems, but there’s overwhelming inner resistance to him making any substantial change, if it was needed.

In the U.S., if there’s any “generational” dividing line, I think it may be yet to come. Even most now ‘really old’ people - like my parents’ age - were not all that old when the anti-fat stuff, the carb-heavy food pyramid, etc., came out. They internalized it.

Maybe there will be a more self-directed cohort, and one that doesn’t get so ingrained with “fat is bad” and so forth, but when? Something like the “keto community” but 10 or 15 times larger.

#29

yea in this day and age he ‘best recommend’ to be safe vs the big malpractice liability the poor doc is under, I so get that but also he knows that he is pleased with your progress ALL BECAUSE you are a patient that goes home and puts some EFFORT into learning more and he see that and he thinks, yes, this ONE is moving forward with interest of their own…not the one that says fix me with 0 motivation to learn.

So it is great you got that ‘good ol’ more easy type’ relationship and you guys are on that same page and yea he likes you, you are improving without his pills he might recommend the next time he sees ya, he is like, damn I GOT ONE that wants change and good things and I don’t have to just write a prescip :slight_smile:

good post GG! Love it!

(Denise) #30

His nurse told me one day it was so good to see someone that takes an interest in their own health, something like that. I got to feeling pretty good that I was actually encouraging her. It must be so frustrating to want so badly to really help someone but instead, they have to prescribe medication. Other’s might eventually just turn numb about it, even give up trying. I know I actually get tired of hearing neighbors, and friends say how amazing the changes are in me. But they won’t do anything for themselves.

I’m just glad to know people here on this forum, and those on youtube, people “like-minded” about their health.

#31

yea when medicine was saving millions thru new vaccines and a pill and more and that upswing of real hard medicine to save millions of lives was really ‘a pill or a shot’…and that generation relied alot on that and I see truly why they would!!!

boxed in ‘age thinking’ thru our changes on this Earth and our medicine advancement? no idea on it but I feel ya on what you said about your dad and his thoughts…

I do think a new generational line is coming in health care again but I also don’t feel it is ‘some great thing’ coming at us, I feel the monies will have to be dealt with to pay for all those not willing to learn and change,…but I feel like unless we get ‘that cyborg synthetic’ we as physicians ‘can fix wtih some out of this world scanner’ and you are healed overnight or in a split second like on Star Trek LOL ’ I just don’t think the next gen actually will get it and they want it in pill form and fast easy fixes and it just seems OH SO scary what this future of health care truly is gonna be…not chatting surgeries or trauma type influence, I am talking just regular ol’ basic health care on a humans part ya know? I see less and less going there actually.

#32

That is bizarre. I would send her any of Jason Fung’s old work (pre 2019). Also, something from this site written by I think a lay person


What about TOFIs? I have an entire family line where half the diabetics both exercise or are active and are thin and still have or had diabetes while still producing insulin. There is a huge misunderstanding about insulin

#33

We have an older friend, approaching 80 I think. Another friend who is a retired physician and I visited him recently. He is Type 2 and takes a tremendous amount of insulin. He is otherwise happy, he is in an active retirement community with his wife. They volunteer and socialize and travel to see grandchildren. At lunch he shot up a bunch of insulin. When he told us how much my physician friend thought he was being over medicated. My physician friend fixed his own diabetes with low carb a few years ago (on the advice of one of his kids who is not a physician!) The insulin T2 friend nicely told him to mind his own business. He said that if insulin lets him have cake at lunch, he is happy! I think they do not realize how you stop missing these things (much! I will always miss real pizza!) and you feel so much better

One of my kids, in their early 20s said the same, then she got migraines went to a specialist who put her on something that turned her into a zombie. I allowed it felt since it was not my area. After she got lost going a block in her own neighborhood we realized there was a problem. I started doing some research (this kid has a fancy education, no idea why she cannot do her own research). Found a group on neuos in Chicago (not where we live) who had some good advice online. They recommended the meds she would be switched to but at half the dosage of her doctor. We started that without asking, after a couple of weeks seemed to be working and the doctor said to continue. She seems to be ok at the lower dosage but it takes a bad experience to lose faith I think

She still will not follow the more natural remedies I suggested, high fructose sugar (I know but worth a try)) or the opposite, ketosis. There is something in an article I read that talked about temporary insulin resistance during a migraine (or somethin like that , I forget) which made me think of fructose since it is not the same path

(Bob M) #34

One theory is that the brain is “insulin resistant” and can’t use glucose. I don’t think it can use fructose, either. Which is why ketones may work: they provide another energy source.

The easiest thing to do is test with exogenous ketones. If those help, then ketosis most likely will too.

#35

That is a good idea. One problem, this kid is very sensitive to food taste and textures. When she was little she would not take any form of medical liquid, it makes her gag. It was a huge relief when she could swallow pills. From what I understand ketone esters are pretty disgusting. I could have her try using coconut oil in some meals

(Debra) #36

Is it an option to go to a Naturalpath doctor in Ontario? My experience in the US is that I get more competent care by a natural path when it comes to testing for and interpreting blood sugar, cholesterol, thyroid, adrenal glands, etc.

(Mary) #37

Naturopaths are definitely an improvement on allopathy but you still have to take their advice with a grain of salt. The one I saw in Edmonton had no idea there is a link between hyperinsulinaemia and skin tags… :roll_eyes:

(Alec) #38

My strategy with doctors: avoid, unless there’s something acute going on.

In terms of heart disease, 99% of doctors know nothing… worse, what they know is completely wrong. Ditto anything to do with cholesterol. Ditto anything to do with weight loss.

I will say they know a bit more about diabetes, but not how to fix it. Back to 99% of them knowing nothing.

So, it sounds to me that you went there in need of knowledge ie your test scores. Can I please ask what you would do with that information? My conclusion from what I have learnt in the past 3 years of low carb nutrition learning is that you just need to eat low to zero carb in order to get and stay healthy. So I am unclear why you need all those scores… what’s the point? Just eat keto/carnivore and love life until it runs out.

(Jane) #39

Or ignore them when it comes to diet and cholesterol.

I started getting an annual physical when my company put money into my Health Savings Account as an incentive. Wasn’t turning down free money! LOL. But doesn’t mean I have to listen to their advice or fill any prescriptions they feel they need to give me.

#40

Was it an FSA or HSA. I thought with an FSA it is a use or lose proposition but an HSA is yours forever and it is up to you when you want to use it and if you change jobs you can take it with you? Maybe I am confused

(Jane) #41

My company offers both and they used to contribute to both if you got an annual physical. I switched from an FSA to HSA several years ago because the “use it or lose it” was too frustrating. You needed a crystal ball to figure out what your medical expenses would be in the upcoming year.