Total keto fail, please help

newbies
#21

I’m glad to hear you’re feeling better eating this way, at least!

You’re having a little rant right now. I have many, so I understand. But I’m a little confused–you lost down to 208, then you ate off the diet for one day and gained 14 pounds?? That seems a bit unusual, and it’s certainly not fat. Some of it could be the water weight, of course–that comes and goes easily.

This is just my take on cheating on a “special occasion.” As a 67 year old, I have a reasonable number of friends, numerous occasions to go out to dinner, 5 children and 3 grandchildren. If I cheated every time I went out to dinner or a friend had a birthday, I would get nowhere. This is how I got fat, having way too many special occasions that merited, in my mind, eating whatever I wanted.

Keto is pretty unforgiving of cheat days, for many of us. A cheat day sets me back at least a couple days, I think–in all honesty, I haven’t cheated, as in throwing the diet out the window and eating like I used to , which is what made me overweight, since I started in January. I’ve also lost 40 pounds in that time.

I don’t consider keto restrictive, although many people in my life think it is. And tell me so, repeatedly. They tell me it’s no fun to go out with me anymore. Because I won’t eat what they’re eat! And I think that makes them feel guilty about what they’re eating. And in some cases, they should. Because I won’t eat the stuff that made me fat. That’s right–I won’t eat it. If I do, I’ll end up fat again.Some people can get away with eating carbs–I am not one of them. Maybe you aren’t either. You really may have to make a choice between being thin and having the ability to eat what it seems like the rest of the world is eating.

But restrictive? You can eat meat, vegetables, cheese, nuts, butter, salads of all kinds, keto snacks–in limited amounts, like we should have been eating carbs all along.

I hope this doesn’t sound too harsh. I feel for you, I really do, and for all of us who were fed the lie that we could eat all this garbage processed food and loads of carbohydrates and not pay a price. Well, we couldn’t.

Keep calm and keto on. And give it more than a few weeks, especially since it sounds like you’re still learning about all this stuff. I’ve had 40 years off and on low carb to get the general idea, but then keto was a whole new learning curve. I’d love to have you stick around and become a success story. I’m rooting for you.

(Ron) #22

Why then would you join a Ketogenic community? Seem sort of troll-ish to me.:thinking: Curious?

(LeeAnn Brooks) #23

F[quote=“4dml, post:20, topic:49136”]
It eliminates several food groups (fruits,
[/quote]

Limit is not the same thing as eliminate.

(Ron) #24

I always thought strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries were fruit? Learn something new every day.:open_mouth:

(LeeAnn Brooks) #25

Yup, and for the rest of that stuff, well I like French fries, Oreos, potato chips and birthday cake too, but they clearly aren’t part of a healthy lifestyle.

Have a cheat if one wants, but let’s not pretend we can eat that way all the time and be healthy.

(Ron) #26

This was another post in another thread from @4dml that seems contradicting.
" I want to exert the least amount of effort needed to achieve my desired result. My goal is to reduce IR, so I want to keep insulin as low as feasible. After I’ve eaten, I don’t eat again until my body has finished “processing” the food*. "
I don’t understand how one would accomplish this with those food choices?:weary:

#27

My definition of a ketogenic diet is eating in a way that creates a state of ketosis. I have been in an almost continuous state of ketosis for a year. I’ll go out on a limb and say that I probably maintain a deeper state of ketosis (GKI < 2) than the majority of folks on this forum.

I suffer(ed) from the same maladies (obesity and IR), that many of the folks on this forum have. I try to be helpful by sharing my success and experience using an alternative approach, especially for folks who are frustrated with a LC diet.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #28

And why do you think this?

(Ron) #29

On a forum that people who have chosen to pursue a Keto lifestyle by trying to suggest alternatives to their choice? Sorry, still seems trollish to me.

I have expressed my opinion and will discontinue hijacking this thread now.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #30

Since the goal of nutritional ketosis is to become fat adapted, and too much carbohydrate keeps us from reaching that goal, I am a bit confused by your insistance that eating carbohydrate keeps you in ketosis.

I stay in ketosis by limiting myself to 20 grams of carbohydrate and find that easier to do when my carbs take the form of salad, broccoli, and cauliflower than when they take the form of pasta, rice, ice cream, or glazed doughnuts. If I could limit myself to only 20 grams of glazed doughnuts, I would be tempted to make that my carbs; as it is, 20 kilos of glazed doughnuts is more like it!

Oddly enough, I don’t miss sugar all that much. For me, it’s similar to giving up alcohol, in that by eliminating something from my life I have become free of it. I actually like having normal blood work, a normal pulse rate, and normal blood sugar. I like being able to bend over, to tie my shoes without having to hold my breath, and to wipe my bottom without difficulty. I actually prefer these things to having sugar in my life. Who knew? :bacon:

#31

I’m not advocating eating junk. But a LC diet eliminates more than just junk. Potatoes, lentils, peanuts, dates, onions, pineapple, rice, quinoa, apricots, pasta, etc are not junk foods.

FYI, I’m not much of a junk food eater. While I enjoy the occasional slice of pie/cake, sugar is not a big temptation for me. I’m much more likely to choose dishes like rice & beans, lasagna, BLT sandwich, cottage cheese with pineapple chunks, shrimp & grits, chicken & dumplings, potato salad, eggs & hash browns, black eyed peas & cornbread, etc.

I try to eat foods that my great grandma would recognize. She knew what a potato was but not a potato chip. She knew what lemonade was but not Mountain Dew. On a recent Nourish Balance Thrive podcast, Dr Bikman stated that 150 years ago in the US the diet was probably about 20% protein, 30% carb, 50% fat. My great grandma managed to eat healthy without knowing what a macro was. Its really just a matter of common sense.

What I am pointing out is that eating LC isn’t the only way to reverse T2D. That’s not me talking, I’m quoting Dr Fung. He has a patient base that has been able to significantly improve their health solely via fasting. If you don’t believe me, read his book (The Complete Guide to Fasting). Or watch the movie Fasting, which features a number of clinicians. Or view some of the hundreds of personal testimonials on YouTube*.

There’s no contradiction. There is no way that I could have achieved the results I did as quickly as I did, by eating a HFLC diet. I got the kind of results that would be experienced by a 30 something year old male. Check out some of the other posts by peri/post menopausal women. Its amazing how quickly progress can be made eating one meal a week. And that meal was whatever I wanted and didn’t compromise my progress. I’ve now reached the point where I can eat anything I want one day out of every 4-5 days while still improving my IR. Again, this is typically real food, just not necessarily very LC. Right now I’m going through a Poke bowl phase:

The key to my success has been twofold: eliminating guessing and figuring out how my body worked. I had bloodwork drawn so I knew my starting point and could quantify improvement over time. I knew my body composition because I got a DEXA, and I could track fat loss, muscle gain and make adjustments as necessary. I knew my BMR because I got it tested, and I had an idea of appropriate caloric intake and protein requirements, though I didn’t count calories or measure macros. I knew how insulin was responding to various inputs (food, exercise, sleep) because I tracked BG and BK.

With fasting you can eat foods that have higher carbs while still making progress towards your goal. The dosage of fasting that’s required to maintain ketosis depends on your metabolism. If you doubt what I am saying, try it for yourself. After a day of eating your typical LC meals, measure your fasting BG the following morning. A few days later, eat meals that are above your carb tolerance, then fast for a couple of days and measure BG. It will likely be lower than your LC reading. The numbers will will vary depending your metabolic health. This fundamental principle is why a lot of folks have achieved their desired results with IF. More deranged folks may need an ADF protocol. Several books have been written about this, without advocating a LC diet. Dr Mosley of 5:2 fame (The Fast Diet) and Dr Varady (The Every Other Day Diet) come to mind. I offer these examples only to show that these aren’t my principles. I merely applied it (with adjustments) to my situation.

Eating a LC diet works. But so does fasting. With fasting, results can be similar (or better) with greater dietary flexibility. There is no greater “keto” than fasting. It will create a deeper state of ketosis than any diet. Again, that’s fact, not my opinion.

Please understand, I’m not knocking a LC diet. Much of the time (when I’m cooking) I eat within my carb threshold (which is ~50g carb per day). I am pushing back against advocating that a LC diet is the only way to achieve better health. Or that its the only way to “be keto”.

This is called the Ketogenic Forum, not the LC Forum. Fasting is my way of “being keto”. I’m not targeting folks who are happy with their LC diet. If its working for you, KCKO. My responses are geared to the folks who post here that are frustrated by stalls, struggling with compliance, are overwhelmed, or find for whatever reason, a LC diet isn’t meeting their expectations. For as long as I’m a member here, I’m going to continue to share my success and offer up a viable alturnative. If that’s trolling, so be it.

*just as an example, vlogger Bob Briggs, Butter Makes My Pants Fall Off discusses in a video that eating LC addresses only 50% of the problem.

#32

I have no way of knowing for sure, but draw hints from antidotal posts. I try to keep my BG in the 70s (an A1c of 4.5 = 83 mg/dL) on average. When fasting my BG drops to 55-65 and BK > 4 mmol, when eating I try to keep BG < 85 and BK ~2. For those of us who are metabolically deranged, these numbers probably can’t be achieved via diet alone. Some degree of fasting is required. Since I fast more than most, I’m probably in a deeper state of ketosis than most. But again, I’m just guessing.

Numbers matter because it tells us how well our body is functioning. But it is not a pissing contest. We’re each on our own personal journey and comparisons aren’t necessarily helpful (and may be discouraging). I only mentioned it in response to a comment that I wasn’t keto.

(LeeAnn Brooks) #33

We will have to disagree that potato’s and pasta are not junk food.

(Jane) #34

I agree with you, even though I prefer to follow the LCHF WOE because it is easier with all the travel I do, to do lazy keto and not have to measure my food, my blood, my breath, etc.

My own son has lost 50 lbs doing OMAD and not particularly low carb, although he doesn’t pig out on carbs when he eats.

#35

No it isn’t but with 20 g carbs only there is no way I can eat any of that, especially if I have to cut back on protein now.

(Michelle) #36

@Queenv how is your keto journey going?

#37

Much better! I am doing common sense keto and it seems to be working, but i am having a big problem keeping protein low and fat high.

(Running from stupidity) #38

Why are you trying to keep protein low?

#39

Normal keto apparently doesn’t work for me so I’m doing a much stricter version called Common Sense keto. I can’t go over 50 grams of peotein a day and that’s extremely low. Frankly even normal keto protein is low for me, im a carnivore