The 'Give us this day our daily bread' thread - aka theology of keto

[Jacob4Jesus]

I wonder if any here who identify as Christians have thought about the place of bread in Christian theology. I am the bread of life… bread and wine at Holy Communion…

when it comes to evidence vs conventional wisdom, evidence should always win… what is tradition if it doesn’t move us forward but holds us back?

The communion bread isn’t a tradition, its a commandment. That puts in a different category.

I don’t disagree with this, but I think bread was chosen because the manna that the Jews gathered while wandering the wilderness was bread-like in consistency and they chose the thing that was closest to it.

Unleavened bread was chosen because the people fled in a hurry and couldn’t wait to let it rise. However, bread has always been a symbol of life. In days of the temple there was bread displayed in it as a symbol of providence and of life.

Hmm… that is ringing a bell for me somewhere, which probably means I’ve heard it before. My gut instinct is to suggest that that is a later Christian interpretation, a forcing of symbolism onto something which had a practical origin. Unleavened bread was eaten at Passover as a reminder of the haste with which they had to leave Egypt - there was no time to let the yeast work.

Actually it is a Hebrew tradition. Before the passover the Hebrews searched their tents (later homes) and removed every bit of levin to symbolize the removal of sin from thier households. This practice is still in use today. Today a bit of levin (a crumb or so) is intentionally left in the house and then just before the Passover the king of the feast (usually the partiarch of the family) does a ritual search where he finds the remaining levin and removes it from the home.

One another note. please remember that the bread eaten in the 1st century was not the highly-bred and refined dwarf wheat that we grow in the USA today. It was still grain-based, but much healthyer than anything you or I have likely eaten.

–Jacob

[gardengirlkp]

It’s an interesting situation. I’m former UMC church member. I abstain 100% from all grains and juices due to food addiction remission. I think the next time I attend church with family and friends , I’ll go up there and pretend to take it ( is this called in absentia??)

Anyhoo, I used to serve communion at the UMC Church and someone came up and pretended to take the bread and the grape juice. I had no clue what was going and the minister next to me talked me through it. Now I understand why people may not receive the sacrament but take it in spirit

Pretty sure my HP doesn’t want me to suffer for days or even weeks with binge urges over the bread and the grape juice.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

Like pizza. “I am the pizza of life?”

[PaulL]

It’s debatable whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal or not. In fact, at least one of the Gospels makes a big deal about how they rushed the Crucifixion to get it over with before Passover started that evening. That was a Friday, so Thursday night couldn’t have been a Passover meal. Therefore, a number of Christian theologians assume that the bread was leavened, and for them, the symbology pairs with that of the wine: both in yeast bread and in wine there is human effort and also a mysterious transformation (leavening in the first, fermentation in the second) that symbolizes how the Holy Spirit works in people. Take the thought for what it’s worth.

Personally, I have found that you can’t stop people from eating carbs any more that you can stop people (sometimes the same people!) from sinning. I’m not sure it’s my place even to try. I have a strong moralistic streak that needs to be kept under control or I start telling the world what to do, and for some reason most people find that annoying. (That said, you’d all be in a lot better shape if you’d just listen to me and do things my way, lol!)

I don’t worry about Communion because the quantities are so small. And given the wafers they use in the parish where I work, it doesn’t trigger my carb addiction because (as one humorous bishop put it) it takes more faith to believe it’s bread than to believe it’s the Body of Christ. Likewise, over years of sobriety I have perfected the art of taking the tiniest sip of the wine. As a priest friend of mine put it, it’s the Blood of Christ, but it can still get me drunk, so I am always careful. And I never partake if I think one of my addictions is going to be triggered that day. God may not want me in the thrall of addiction, but he’s also not about to save me from deliberate stupidity on my part, lol!

For those worried about the consequences of partaking, I can assure you that the ancient tradition is that receiving Communion in one element only (whether bread or wine) is just as valid as receiving both, and there is even a tradition that, when bringing Communion to the sick, if medical reasons prevent the patient from receiving the Elements physically, the spiritual benefits of Communion are still transmitted. Surely this principle also applies to ketonians, as well. We can trust that God understands and does not niggle about these things as we do. The Sacrament is there to bless us, not to torture us.

[Jacob4Jesus]

The Sacrament is there to bless us, not to torture us.

That is certainly true.

As for the rest, quoting numerous traditions is one thing, but what is important is what the Word says. I am not saying you are wrong about any of your conclusions, just trying to focus on the priority.

–Jacob