Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath
(G. Andrew Duthie) #121

Fantastic info. Thanks for posting this.

(Roxanne) #122

This is great, Todd, now Iā€™m eager to get mine :slight_smile: Did you consistently get the same correlation between the BAC and your Ketonix? For example, did 0.05 BAC% consistently correspond to about 56 on your ketonix?

(Todd Allen) #123

Roxanne, I apologize for not making it clear previously, but I donā€™t have a ketonix. I looked up how the ketonix and the breathalyzer each generate their displayed values and calculated the equivalences. I added my personal results with respect to diet as it ā€œfeelsā€ right to me. Iā€™ve also done blood glucose and infrequent blood ketone testing and used ketone pee strips when starting keto. Although there isnā€™t a tight correspondence between them, they have each given me a similar feel for what I can eat at any given time for my goal to be mostly in moderate ketosis.

My expectation is because a ketonix can generate a reading from 0-100 with a non linear scale that gives excellent coverage at the low end of the range it is a better tool for someone new to keto struggling to get into ketosis. If one is stuck in the blue zone feedback from 0 to 40 is going to give a better sense of where one stands and their progress than the 3 scores 0.00, 0.01 or 0.02. In the mid to higher ranges the difference in reported precision narrows. After one has been at keto a while the cheap breathalyzer is sufficient to guide one in achieving a targeted degree of ketosis.

(Roxanne) #124

Thanks for the explanation, Todd. I was confusing you with someone else who had both devices and was planning to compare the results :). Iā€™m glad you are finding it to be a useful tool.

(Gale Dacalio) #125

I tried my ketonix after drinking alcohol and it registered red. It tells you in the instructions not to do it after consuming alcohol. Which is high. It only read orange when I was 5.5 by blood.

(Gale Dacalio) #126

Nice work. Thanks. I have an old ketonix, a blood ketone monitor, and am considering getting this and doing my own little n=1 experiment.

#127

Here are the results of someone who has actually tested bac% versus ketonix (as opposed to brownfats theoretical conversion). Seems to give different conversions.

http://www.engineeringmyself.com/2016/11/using-cheap-breatalizer-to-measure.html

Reading the breathalyzer
Greenwon Tester
#128

The chart below may also be useful for looking at how breath acetone correlates with blood ketones.

@brownfat - this chart has acetone in PPMā€™s on the right hand scale. You may be able to add to your conversion table to include the expected equivalent BHB reading.

Greenwon Tester
(Todd Allen) #129

If a BAC% of zero (the lowest possible) generates a Ketonix score > 50 (well into ketosis) how would they ever know when they werenā€™t in ketosis?

#130

I would say that single point at 0% bac is a faulty reading / outlier. The only credible observations appear to be 0.01% to 0.06% bac equiv to ketonix of 60-85 based on the observations. Outside those ranges, and 0.00% to 0.01% bac in particular, i suspect the relationship is very sensitive, and would need more emperical data to figure out the tipping point into ketosis. My breathalyser only has 2 decimal places, so readings of 0.00% and 0.01% i assume are no ketosis or low ketosis levels. My readings currently are 0.07% to 0.16% (increasing morning through to evening), off the scale of that chart at the other extreme.

(Todd Allen) #131

Their point at zero Y is at 55 on X. And their regression line intersects the X axis at roughly 53. So it isnā€™t much of an outlier and it is closer to the line then the majority of their other data points.

You assume BAC% 0.01 means low ketosis but on this graph it is ~60 a score quite high.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #132

60 hours fasted as of this morning, and I was reading 0.07, highest yet.

Broke my fast with bacon, sausage, and eggs. Followed by some Greek yogurt.

Interestingly, several hours later Iā€™m still reading 0.07.

#133

Does your unit also display mg/L? Iā€™m thinking of getting a second tester.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #134

It does BAC, %BAC and mg/L

(G. Andrew Duthie) #135

So, either something has changed with my meter, or my recent 2-day fast has kicked my ketosis into overdrive.

As I noted a day or so ago, I fasted for around 60 hours, and got my highest reading yet on the meter. Since then, itā€™s consistently been in the 0.07-0.08 range, even though Iā€™ve been eating pretty regularly, though pretty much everything Iā€™m eating is keto (the one thing that is a little on the high end carb-wise, is Greek yogurt). I was expecting this to at least reduce the ketone levels a bit, but doesnā€™t seem to be the case.

Has anyone using these meters seen shifts over time in what itā€™s registering that arenā€™t in line with what youā€™d expect? Iā€™m not complaining, but given how cheap they are, I do have to wonder about accuracy.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #136

Mine consistently shows 0.05-0.07% and occasionally higher. Though even after Iā€™ve fallen off the keto wagon for a meal or two, it still shows 0.02 or 0.03. I have a small air compressor that I loosely couple to the meter with my fingers and it registers 0.00 every time. I also ask my wife (not doing keto) for a sample too and she usually gets 0.02 or 0.01.

(Ben) #137

Mine usually shows 0.04 and has gone as high as 0.09.
I had a boysā€™ night out on Friday, which involved beer and curry, and the following morning it registered a not surprising 0.00. Back up to 0.02 by the end of the day and 0.04 on Sunday.
So Iā€™d say that mine fairly reflects my state.

(Todd Allen) #138

Your experience with the meter seems to match mine pretty close. I think the meters are fairly accurate and the majority of inaccuracy is likely caused by variation in use. As long as Iā€™m consistent in how I breath, the timing and volume, I get very consistent readings. My wife and I have passed it back and forth and each get consistent different readings.

Perhaps it is due to the lack of precision (not having an additional digit after the decimal point) but I also find it slow to respond to meals or skipping meals. It does eventually happen, but it often takes many hours. Iā€™ve also found fasting to be very effective to boost the score. And on the day after a fast I can be pretty indulgent and the score is slow to drop.

Iā€™ve read that when protein is consumed with ample fat the insulin response to the protein is reduced, but that when carbs are eaten with fat the insulin response is increased. Iā€™m trying to see if I can detect and guesstimate the strength of that effect in myself although the sluggishness of response and my unwillingness to experiment on myself with 50 g boluses of glucose may prevent me from collecting meaningful data.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #139

Heh. Not willing to take one for the team, eh? :wink:

Still rocking and rolling. 0.08 again. Works for me.

GlucoRx HCT & Ketone Monitoring System
(KCKO, KCFO) #140

I use the GreenWon meter, while just doing IF, I get .03-.04, I did an 81 hr. fast and during that fast it moved up consistently until it hit 1.00 BAC. So fasting really effected my ketosis. It stayed around .07-.08 for almost a week afterwards. I had added berries and some low carb cheesecake muffins because they are so good together. Then it has dropped to the .03-.04 levels again, it stopped the berries and muffins, and it went to .04-.05 levels, that is where I am currently.

Iā€™ll be repeating the fasting, doing the Zornfast this month, will be interesting to see if the same changes occur.

Keto not really working