This link also says that it can be due too HIGH and too LOW electrolytes.
My heart was FINE before I started increasing my intake of sodium and potassium.
I feel like trying to “do the right thing” and look after electrolytes has caused this problem.
I’ve done really long fasts (3 weeeks) over the past 10 years and have NEVER had to supplement electrolytes before, despite drinking heaps.
The usual cups of broth were all that was ever needed.
If Keto is so “weird” that it requires heaps of electrolyte supplements, which then leads to tachycardia and heart problems, I’m super unhappy about it.
As I’m googling “tachycardia” and “electrolytes” and “keto”, I’m getting people reporting racing heart rates for both too low and too high potassium and too low and too high sodium.
I’m going to interrupt Keto until I’ve figured this out.
There is no way I’m willing to do damage to my heart.
I will keep reading and posting here, as I hope to start Keto again. I want the long-term benefits of fasting and a keto diet is the only way I know how.
But I need a safe way to do Keto. I refuse to eat a diet that has me needing to see a cardiologist.
So until I’ve worked out what this is, I’m on a keto break.
Let me know how your cardiologist appointment goes on Monday?
So it seems that by eating carbs and producing insulin on my keto break, I’ll be helping to reduce potassium blood levels by shifting potassium back from the blood into cells.
Also, the article notes that healthy ppl respond to too high levels of potassium (eg from supplementing too much) by peeing lots, to get rid of the excess potassium. I guess this could lead ppl who are peeing lots to assume that they’re “losing” electrolytes (which they are - the excess ones!) and then deciding to keep supplementing. The article says that healthy kidneys are quite able to adapt to excess supplementing, as long as it’s not too extreme.
DWhat I see on this on this thread is a lot of individuals with similar problems trying to find the ‘sweet spot’ by taking supplements.
I wonder why the idea of trying to balance these deficiencies naturally is not part of the discussion.
Because the food grown on our nutrient depleted soils are inadequate, we cannot get the nutrition we need from any of them. The sea bed is the only place on the planet that still contains the nutrients our food requires to make us healthy.
Eat food grown on the sea bed. Kelp, sea weed. Blue green algae.
It’s logical and natural.
Granted, I have not had any heart palpitations or abnormal heart rate issues, but I had other serious symptoms that turned out to be mineral imbalances and were completely resolved with sea weed and spirulina.
My advice is to stop the supplements. They are processed and contain additives.
They are not the same as natural sources.
Eat what the earth produces.
Use pink Himalayan salt to taste on everything and eat greens from the ocean.
I hope you find this helpful
Keep calm and keto on
It’s off and on, so I’ve just been dealing with it until I get to the cardiologist. I work in a hospital, so if I have problems, I’m in the best place.
Thanks, @Lesliemont. I do not take any supplements, but I will try the kelp, seaweed, algae. I have heard many people talking about pink Himalayan salt, which I have. So, what is it about the pink salt that is beneficial compared to other salts?
I don’t know, Leslie.
That would be my approach and assumption too.
But I’ve read and also been told directly on this forum countless times the need for supplementing, especially copious amounts of salt, as well as other electrolytes.
When I’ve expressed surprise/ concern about this, I’ve mostly been told/ read that Keto is “so diuretic” that big amounts of sodium (salt) are needed and that other supplements should be added too.
Understand that when you begin a ketogenic diet you are forcing your body to completely change the systematic way it has been operating with the HCLC way you have trained it to do. It has spent a lifetime of converting high amounts of carbohydrates into glucose in order to drive all the forces of energy required to keep functioning. Because these carbs are depleted at pretty rapid rate your body has also learned to store extra glucose in your fat cells along with water for times when you are not feeding. (thus hunger constantly between meals and weight gain).
When you go into nutritional ketosis you are telling the body you are not going to give it an more glucose and it has to dip into the storage reserves for glucose. This means that it is going to absorb the reserves it has saved for the lean times. When it does this it also gets the water and
minerals that are being stored as well, This is why you hear of the big weight losses at the beginning of ketosis, you are loosing the water that is being taken from your body and expelled in your urine. With this is lost minerals as well (salt, potassium , magnesium , and others), This is why you need to replace them.
After you become “fat adapted” your body has learned how to utilize fat for fuel and doesn’t have to have storage cells. You also won’t be urinating out all that water and loosing so many electrolytes. This typically allows you to ease back on supplementing and allows lots of ketoer’s to get what they need from food sources.
The transition period from nutritional ketosis to fat adapting is a critical time and is why you see the recommendations about supplements. It is also a pretty fine line to find the right balance of supplements and this is why you see a lot of justified recommendations about consulting your doctor or dietitian or other professional.
disclaimer - this is a generalized overview (to help with your question) and the science could be explained in greater detail.
I only understand the science at an intermediate level. I think what you are saying is fairly accurate.
What I don’t understand is the advice to replace sodium at copious amounts.
Our kidneys are superior at keeping our blood sodium levels constant. In the presence of insulin, we will conserve sodium. When insulin levels drop, we need less sodium and our kidneys will eliminate what we do not need. Thus, while in nutritional ketosis, increased sodium intake results in increased sodium output.
That’s an overview.
Because of this I think the problem is an imbalance of a combination of minerals. Not only sodium, but all the other minerals we need to properly function at the cellular level. Muscle cells are especially sensitive to minerals.
Most people are happy to add more sodium to their diet but the other minerals don’t generally come out of a shaker. This leads to the question of how to get those minerals in a bio available form that works in the orchestra of the sodium intake.
This is why I like to urge people to use natural sources, food sources.
When I developed the problems I developed because of mineral deficiencies, the nutritionist I consulted made it very clear that it is a balancing act. She advised not to eat more salt than that what I enjoy on my food but to augment that with sea vegetables.
It worked like magic. I’m not exaggerating. Less than two days and all of my symptoms were completely resolved.
I wish I could fix everybody else who is trying so hard to stay LCHF. This is the only healthy WOE, in my view.
I don’t want anyone to become discouraged and heart palpitations are definitely scary.
Maybe @carl or @richard can address this in greater detail
I learned about pink Himalayan salt when my daughter was diagnosed with leaky gut syndrome almost two years ago. That, it turns out, is caused in part by poor gut flora. White salt, iodized salt, is toxic to good gut flora and feeds bad gut flora. The exact opposite is true for pink salt.
Pink Himalayan salt feeds good gut bacteria and the good bacteria flourish leaving no space for the bad.
Besides that, it tastes a whole lot better. I mean, there’s a noticeable difference between white and pink salt. The white is so bitter and not satisfying at all compared to pink.
We buy pink Himalayan salt in the rock form at Costco and use a grinder at home.
It’s freakin amazing!
I hope you find this helpful
Keep calm and keto on
Hello @Sugar-addict, I have been having the exact issues! I actually just posted a similar question, only my heart seems to thump at a normal pace. I keep reading into potassium as well and its a fine line between more or less supplements.
Today Im gonna try eating more potassium as opposed to supplements to see if that helps any.
One of the best things I’ve ever done for my anxiety was to get an EKG, be told my heart was good, and throw my Fitbit away. Not really, but I turned off the heart rate. It’s information a healthy person doesn’t need. Unless you’re doing zone training or have health issues that would concern you with your heart rate getting to high (your heart can’t physically overexert itself) with exercise it’s just one more thing to worry about. Just some food for thought.
Thank you for the information.
I’m very proud to say, with the exception of pork products, my diet is strongly represented in that list.
Sea weed and spirulina are also a part of my day, everyday.
1. Blood Pressure: The adrenals play a big role in helping to maintain normal blood pressure levels. A normal resting blood pressure should be in the range of 110-130 mm/Hg systolic over 70-80 mm/Hg. Diastolic. Individuals with adrenal hyperfunction (high stress hormones) will have high blood pressure while individuals with adrenal hypofunction (low stress hormones) will have low blood pressure.
A resting blood pressure over 130/80 mm/Hg can be a sign of high adrenal output. A resting blood pressure under 110/70 mm/Hg may be a sign of low adrenal output.
2. Orthostatic Hypotension Test: All you need for this one is a blood pressure cuff. Lie down for 5 minutes and then take your blood pressure and make note of it (especially the systolic – top number). Then stand up and take your blood pressure again immediately.
The systolic pressure should naturally rise about 10 mm/hg when you go from sitting to standing. If the systolic pressure remained the same or it decreased, there is a chance you have adrenal fatigue. When we stand, epinephrine is normally secreted to increase the blood pressure to overcome gravity and pump blood towards the heart.
3. Pupillary Constriction Test: This test was first described in 1924 by Dr. Arroyo. It measures the contraction of the iris in response to dark light exposure. The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis helps to control the contraction of the iris.
When someone is dealing with adrenal fatigue, they are unable to maintain the contraction for a normal length of time. Here is how you do the test.
Set up the Room: Sit in front of a mirror in a dimly lit room.
Use a Flashlight: Take a flashlight and shine it into your eye from the side of your face (45 degree angle). When this happens, your eyes will naturally constrict and the diameter will reduce in size. Here are the possible results:
Pupillary Response:
Possible Finding:
Stays constricted for 20+ seconds Healthy HPA Axis
Fasciculates between 10-20 seconds Mild HPA Axis disruption
Fasciculates between 5-10 seconds HPA Axis Fatigue
Immediate pulsation and dilation HPA Axis Exhaustion/Failure
Adrenal Hyperfunction: This form of adrenal function is characterized by an excess of cortisol and stress hormones. In addition, this will result in high aldosterone levels, which causes sodium chloride retention and potassium dumping.
High aldosterone levels will cause hypertension and can also contribute to symptoms such as anxiety, irritability and headaches.
On a comprehensive metabolic panel, you will see a level for sodium, chloride and potassium. This is key to understanding what is happening with the adrenals.
Sodium: Sodium should normally be between 140-145 mmol/L. With adrenal hyperfunction, sodium will be in the high normal or above. So anything 144+, I start to consider adrenal hyperfunction.
Potassium: This should normally between 4.0-4.5 mmol/L. When it is low, 4.0 or under, it is a strong consideration for adrenal hyperfunction.
Chloride: This is a component of sodium – sodium chloride and is retained in adrenal hyperfunction. Normal levels should be between 100-106 mmol/L. When chloride levels are over 105 mmol/L, it is a sign of adrenal hyperfunction.
The end result of this is metabolic acidosis and is often seen with hypertension and anxiety.
Carbon Dioxide: The levels are usually low – under 25, which is a sign of blood sugar dysregulation
High Blood Glucose: Most people with adrenal hyperfunction have elevated fasting blood glucose and HgA1C because these individuals have high cortisol (which elevated blood sugar) and high stress hormones (or low) leads to insulin resistance and poor blood sugar control.
High Cholesterol: Individuals with adrenal hyperfunction will often have high cholesterol and the terrible triad of high LDL, low HDL and high triglycerides …More
Note: The context (glucose\sugar burner) of this information may not be in relation to ketogenic diet metabolism! For Dr. Jocker’s non-ketonian audience…
My heart rate is still much too high and I can feel that my blood pressure is too. Because I’ve never had BP issues, I do not have a cuff to measure my BP at home, but I can feel my pulse way too strong.
I had to run 50 metres for the bus today, because the train was late.
Couldn’t do it.
Leg muscles said N-O
Heart said N-O
Nothing. I could not even run 10 metres. It was trying to run through thick jelly.
This is NOT good.
I’m off the stupid potassium and magnesium drink, I’ve stopped adding any salt to my food and I’m not eating keto til this has settled down. Short of going to a hospital emergency department (which I feel would be over-doign it) I can’t get to a doctor before Friday, and even then, trying to get an appointment for a blood test will be nigh impossible.
The calcium in the mixed supplement can compete with the absorption of the magnesium.
Magnesium calms down a fast heart rate by competing with circulating calcium. But the magnesium needs to be absorbed into the body to work.
Like @Brenda has mentioned, checking in with a trusted medical professional and going through a process of checking body electrolytes balance by testing will give the best answers in relation to your unique self. Supplement, if needed, as needed.
Super high heart rate is what lifts your post outside of the more standard questions about getting palpitations (flutters) or pounding heart beats on a ketogenic diet. I hope @Stephanie_Manino sees this as well.
A heart rate above 100 when at rest is a condition named tachycardia and can indicate atrial fibrillation.
It happens in very fit people who do lots of cardio work outs, which can remodel the shape of the heart. If that base anatomical change is in place, then small triggers like a diet change, a big night out, a sudden psychological stress (receiving bad news) can set off an episode of tachycardia (fast heart rate). A diet change that unmasks or creates an electrolyte imbalance is a common trigger for palpitations (fluttering), pounding or tachycardia.
‘Normal’ serum levels of blood electrolytes may not be optimal for a ketogenic eater. Have a close look at where the values landed in the ranges. For example, normal magnesium, but low in the normal range, can indicate a possible underlying deficiency.
Mineral levels as electrolytes are highly preserved in the circulation as storage organs (usually bone), or as electrolytes are released from inside cells, slowly responding to any sudden low dip values. Unfortunately it is easier to lose electrolytes quickly and daily, depending on daily inputs and outputs.
That depletion of intracellular electrolytes (not seen easily on a blood test) can be particularly significant in heart muscles and their electrical activity in regulating heart rate and rhythm.
To have episodes of tachycardia at rest may indicate paroxysmal atrial fibrillation. Search it in the forum as some of us go deep dive investigating on the topic.
Going to ER during an episode of tachycardia will get you a better diagnosis than a consult with the cardiologist, even if they run an electrocardiogram (ECG), when you have a more normal resting heart rate.
Definitely record what you are doing, what you recently consumed, before each episode occurred and diarise it. That information will be very important for eventual healing, if you are diagnosed with a heart problem.
