Strength training while ZC

[Fangs]

You’re absolutely right, I just need to learn to listen to my body and eat when hungry. The other night, I ate a nice big beef tenderloin steak. It was probably around 1 pound. I didn’t feel quite satiated. My daughter, also carnivore, didn’t finish hers, so I ate another 4-5 oz. steak and that put me at the perfect spot for feeling “full”.

yea you hit it right there. that is like me. I eat a nice 1 or 1.25 lb or tad more steak and think…this should be it? I mean I am ‘adapted and on plan for years’ but there are days I must have more and just like you said, you ate that extra almost 5 oz and it ‘put you OK’ and who would think that little bit extra would be all to ‘put you in that right spot’ but it does.

I can tell immediately if my steak, whatever size that bad boy is will be ‘enough’ cause if not, I immediately go find other sources, like some leftover chicken I have in fridge for extra food or a tin of sardines to bump it up to ‘perfect full spot’ just like ya said.

I think the key to it all is listen to the body. Easy to do…NOPE in that we are civilized humans with SO much in our lives. Kinda think of it as momma lion says teenage lion needs to hunt and gives it the ‘front runner’ of that kill hunt the group is needing. Teenage lion fails. All go hungry but does momma lion then fret? nope. does that lion then wonder if teenage lion will suvive and thrive and succeed in life. nope. does momma lion think her metabolism is gonna slow cause she did not eat or is her electroyltes gonna take cause she got no fresh salt from the prey’s blood? nope. I mean if we boil it down to brass tacks here, it comes to what is in our lives SO effect us on personal levels and we ‘detach from ourselves’ ya know. We are bombarded with ‘what ifs’ and 'so called ‘real info’ thru news, social media and more at our fingertips telling us THIS IS the way to live, or not the way to live that at some point we just lose ourselves as just a ‘being’ on this planet, in this realm.

yea my clear zc zen thinking is coming into play here LOL

but what I am saying is all is ok if we put our self care in a true normal category of what we want but can we achieve? without going batshit crazy down a line of ‘what ifs’ ya know.

NOW THIS IS ME and my thinking LOL I just come to realize more that I must be ‘there for me’ to be ‘better there to cope with my life’ and how it goes down so now I put all of it into a more category of – I will try a bit but I won’t go crazy over any of it cause first and foremost, MY ZC eating plan WILL put me there ya know. I have that faith in plan that means I can accomplish and obtain goals but time is required to do just that, how much? who knows but in the end I don’t truly control that either.

so just rambling big time on some thoughts.

I think your eating cleaner is a great thing too cause I had to do that. I was into some spices and such and found down the line, as much as I loved the friggin’ taste, they were starting to work against me. As in heartburn…yea ya lose it easily going zc for most and then down the line, time on plan, ya start to notice this ‘food or condiment’ is not working, and damn it can be hard to let go…but in the end it comes to what do you want? what are your personal goals? and whatta do to achieve them?

but thing is it is a very personal walk for each of us but one thing on zc is imperative. Eat til truly you can’t take that last bite. Believe me for so many people thru the years this plan has been adopted and out there, it is a massive truth to this plan. Eat well, don’t limit, and if you do that, your body changes and turns and heals and we then have to listen to those changes again but it is all geared at one thing. The best your body will be

ok sorry for that ramble LOL but I just love chatting zc so much cause in truth it has given me so much and learning from those veterans that have been there, done that and are gleaming with health now, I wanna go there with them ya know so I spout good zc stuff all the time

[Redrobins]

I just wanted to update and thank everyone for all of their thoughts and suggestions. I spent the past week working really hard to just listen to my hunger signals and eat when hungry. Right now, that means 3 meals a day, averaging about 1 pound of meat per meal.

I can honestly say, I feel so much better! Not so cold and tired feeling all of the time. My workouts have been going better as well, I don’t feel as though I struggle as much to finish them.

And…the scale is down a couple of pounds and my clothes are looser! Win-win!

CARNIVORE ROCKS!

[VirginiaEdie]

Nice to hear!

[MarkB]

Thanks for that Paul. I have read (actual RCT’s not Bro science) that older (60 +) individuals need extra BCAA’s to support muscle protein synthesis and without them their gains are very limited, but at what level do these BCAA’s become inflammatory and cause problems ? For example does having a scoop or two of whey protein powder (High in Leucine etc.) after a workout cause inflammation and damage ?

I would like to work out how much is safe. Do you have any good refs maybe on the subject of BCAA supplementation and subsequent inflammation. Thanks

[ketodieter]

I work out 3-4 times a week. Resistance and HIIT also.
Was advised to meet my macros, replacing carbs for fat. My composition has changed a little, won’t know for sure until some months down the line. My performance has stagnated on some exercises as not getting enough carbs. It was suggested to carb cycle. I might try that if the progress stops.

[PaulL]

Do you have any good refs maybe on the subject of BCAA supplementation and subsequent inflammation.

I don’t actually have any information on this, sorry. All I know is that the metabolic pathway in the liver that handles ethanol, fructose, and BCAA’s has a fixed rate of operation, and giving the liver any of those substances at a rate faster than than it can handle leads to a process called de novo lipogenesis, which results in fat being storied in the liver. I believe that Dr. Robert Lustig may have mentioned what this fixt rate is, in one of his many lectures on fructose and metabolic dysfunction. I would suppose that the two approaches that would result in the best outcomes would be (a) to be sure to create a need for BCAA’s by working out properly, so as to build muscle, and (b) to get the necessary BCAA’s by eating foods that contain them, rather than by overloading the body with supplements.

[KennyCrox]

My performance has stagnated on some exercises as not getting enough carbs.

That Conclusion

How did you come to that conclusion?

With that said, if it is true, another method is to write a program that is programmed specifically for the Ketogenic Diet, if that is the diet you are following.

Training On The Ketogenic Diet

One of the main issues with most individuals on the Ketogenic Diet is that their training program still revolves around one that is geared for individual who are on a Standard HIgh Carbohydrate American Diet.

This method doesn’t work well.

First let’s look at the…

Three Energy Systems

1. Phosphagen Energy System

This energy system runs off ATP (Adenosine Triphophate) rather than ketones or glucose.

Work periods of less than 30 seconds of high intensity training utilize this energy system.

Individual who are on a Ketogenic Diet or Standard American Diet will preform equally well when in this energy system. More on that in a minute.

2. Glycolytic Energy System

Work periods of over 30 second to around 2 minutes of moderately intense training utilize this energy system.

Individual on the Ketogenic Diet don’t perform as well as those on a higher carbohydrate diet.

3. Oxidative Energy System

This involves less intense endurance training that is over 2 minutes and longer.

Individual on the Ketogenic Diet perform well in this energy system; a greater percentage of ketones (body fat) is used.

It was suggested to carb cycle.

Carbohydrate Cycling

If your training revolves around the Glycolytic Energy System, this method will work.

The Downside of Carb Cycling

Research by Dr Jake Wilson (formerly director of the Tampa Human Performance Lab) determined, Carb Cycling increase body fat and only allowed individuals on a Ketogenic Diet to be in ketosis one to two days during the week.

Ketogenic Diet Training

For individual who remain on the Ketogenic Diet and perform High Intensity Aerobic, Strength or Hypertrophy Training this is effective.

1. SupraMaximal High Intensity Training

What differentiates this from HIIT is longer rest periods between Sprints. Rest periods are up to 2 minutes long.

Research shows that around 50% of ATP Muscle Restoration occurs in 30 seconds.

Up to 80% of ATP Muscle Restoration occurs in 45 seconds.

In 3 minutes plus, complete ATP Muscle Restoration take place.

SupraMaximal Intensity Training was more effective than HIIT for increasing Power and Strength.

Glucose and Ketone ATP

Ketones produce more ATP than Glucose.

However, Glucose replaces ATP faster than Ketones. Ironically, no can provide any research information on how much faster ATP is with Glucose vs Ketones.

What we do know is that if enough rest is taken between Sprint Sets (such as SuperMaximal Intensity Training) ketones will replenish Muscle ATP.

Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training

Traditional Bodybuilding Training involves the Glycolytic Energy System.

Research by Dr Jonathan Oliver found one method of “Gaming The Bodybuilding Training System” was…

Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training

Subset of repetition within a set of repetitions; this is the same as HIIT.

That means performing set of 10 reps would be: 2 reps, 15 second rest, 2 reps, 15 second rest, 2 reps, 15 second rest, 2 reps, 15 second rest, 2 reps, 15 second rest.

This ensure the exercise was maintained in the Phosphagen Energy System rather the Glycolytic Energy System.

The longer the rest period between subsets of reps, the greater the ATP Muscle Restoration.

Kenny Croxdale