Shouldn't My Dog be Keto?

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #24

That’s exactly what my vet says. They evolved to scrounge anything they could, from us. So theyre diet is whatever we eat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #25

Professor Bikman’s point is well-taken. In one respect, however, dogs are like all other mammals and unlike human beings: they don’t enter ketosis easily. That means they can survive on a much lower fat intake, and it’s why the Inuit fed the lean meat to their dogs, and kept the fatty cuts for themselves.

We are unusal among mammals in being able to enter nutritional ketosis so easily. But the converse of that is that it means we are vulnerable to “rabbit starvation” (rabbits being so lean that a human being who lives only on rabbit meat will starve to death).

#26

Only if that is their only nutrition over an extended amount of time.

So says my ex ferret/polecat…

#27

We need lipids, that’s clear.

#28

But we hunt together, still to this day.

It is symbiotic.

We hunted together, and we still do.

If you will…quid pro quo…i’ll scratch your back if you scratch my ears lol.

Truth.

(Bob M) #29

While I’m a fan of protein, there has to be a limit to the amount you can eat. But I wonder if normal human beings would ever hit this limit?

That is, I wonder if one could eat nothing but lean meats and not get rabbit starvation?

I know when Stefansson did his all meat diet, he supposedly had to increase the fat content. It just says he got sick and then got better after switching to higher fat. But he was on lean meat only 3 days. That doesn’t seem long enough to have an effect.

They really did not eat much, less than a pound of meat a day:

I think we need a volunteer to eat nothing but lean meat for a while. :wink:

(Doug) #30

:smile: Exactly. :smile: How in the heck could 3 days do it?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #31

It’s a good question. A couple of sites I encountered when reading up on rabbit starvation defined it as protein toxicity instead of a fat deficiency. I don’t know if they are right, or whether the official line simply won’t permit any mention of fat as beneficial or necessary.

There is one limit, which is the development of ammonia toxicity. Richard once posted how much protein it would take:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #32

McClellan, Water S. & Du Bois, Eugene F. “Clinical Calorimetry: XLV. Prolonged meat diets with a study of kidney function and ketosis.” J. Biol. Chem. 1930, 87:651-668:

Preliminary observations while on a mixed diet were started in the metabolism ward, February 13, 1928. Stefansson took his meals in the ward but slept at home. On February 26, 1928, he was admitted to the ward and on February 28, started on the meat diet. At our request he began eating lean meat only, although he had previously noted, in the North, that very lean meat sometimes produced digestive disturbances. On the 3rd day nausea and diarrhea developed. When fat meat was added to the diet, a full recovery was made in 2 days. This disturbance was followed by a period of persistent constipation lasting 10 days. The subject had a craving for calf brain of which he ate freely. On March 12, poor appetite, nausea, and abdominal discomfort were present and a second but milder attack of diarrhea occurred which responded quickly to a proper proportionment of lean and fat meat.

#33

Great topic. I have asked our veterinarian, who is also our breeder, this very question recently. Her response was that, generally, it depended on the breed of the dog. French Bulldogs are particularly prone to a number of allergies and health issues, and she would only recommend high-quality animal protein from poultry, meat, and fish. Other breeds, not so much, unless they were exhibiting problems such as skin or behavioral issues related to food choices. In which case an elimination diet would be used to potentially address the issues. We have had Golden Retrivers for 30 plus years and they have never had a problem until recently. I suspect it was the addition of a second dog that caused the first dog to have issues with eating.

#34

If a canine hunts and catches, like, a rabbit. He will eat the whole thing pretty much. In the intestines and stomach, there will be greens and grains, but only a small percentage of the rabbit is actually that.

I think by nature canines eat meat and bones and some small amounts of greens and grains. They will also eat grass to alleviate stomach discomfort. This has me thinking that small amounts of greens and grains are probably a good thing.

(Cathy) #35

I agree but then you get back to the issue of ‘modern day grains’, i.e. wheat.

#36

True, but we have wild rice etc, too. And the amounts are small, much smaller than what is found in grain based kibble.

#37

Poor C

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #38

I note the comments from above … my point about dogs living and eating along side us and sharing close to the same diet might mean if we are getting diabetes perhaps, for the same reasons, they are too!
But I don’t know enough about dogs metabolism to be sure

#39

This wee guy would’ve fought to pretect everyone.
He wasn’t keto…we didn’t even know what keto was.

Gus.
Loyal.

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#40

I think vets just say that about the heart murmur. I had two cats that lived very long lives. The vet told me they had heart murmurs. My mother’s dog also supposedly had one. He lived a long full life. Shockingly though we had a cat that died out of the blue from a heart issue. The vet never said something was wrong with his heart.

(KCKO, KCFO) #41

I live in the Rocky Mountain area, the soil contains a worm that gives cats and dogs a heart disease, All your pets have to either take regular shots or consume a pill daily to prevent those worms from boring holes in their hearts. I know some folks who did not realize that and they lost their fur babies very quickly.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #42

In the UK our dog issues are leptospirosis and Lung worm

(B Creighton) #43

If so, I would guess that it should only be mild ketosis. However, this trend of feeding pets grains, I feel is bad. Mind you that is not all veggies or fruits. I once switched our cat to a cheaper food that had lots of corn, and she liked it. But, eventually she started having trouble with normal elimination and then even stopped eating. After a $400 vet bill my wife only learned that her blood sugar and insulin was a bit high. So, I switched her to Rachael Ray’s salmon indoor cat food which had no corn… and predictably, she got better. Daily corn was a bad, bad ingredient for our cat, and I suspect for most pets. It is also bad for our cows… but it does fatten them quickly. Naghite is right. Stuff like this is why our pets are getting diabetes, cancer, etc.