Seeds no more

[scaperdude]

Today I blew my entire total carb allowance on pumpkin seeds, flax seeds and almonds. The reason was I thought it would help with my digestion. But I felt totally rubbish after eating them.

Almonds are high in oxalates, so I don’t eat them every day. My nut mix does have almonds and pumpkin seeds, but I mix them in roughly equal weights with pecans, sunflower seeds, raw coconut flakes, chopped dates, and lately, some pistachios. I find that mix very tasty. The pumpkin seeds help giving me a better protein profile with the rest of the mix. If I limit this to about 4 ounces, it doesn’t blow my carb allowance, but makes a satisfying snack, while providing a decent protein profile and some fiber.

So far the sort of things I’ve been keeping in my cupboard to ward off constipation are seeds (pumpkin/chia/flax). And today they just didn’t feel right for my body anymore. If I only ate the carnivore foods though I highly enjoy them I fear my chronic constipation would only get worse.

You might try a kiwi. They can help with constipation. I use chia seed too, but soak them or cook them in a soup. That makes them more digestible. Magnesium citrate and/or magnesium oxide are good for constipation, but you will have to take quite a bit. Start at 500 mg/day. They will help draw water into the colon, so make sure you are drinking plenty. I ate some cruciferous vegetables like kale salad, broccoli, asparagus, cabbage, brussel sprouts, etc while on keto, and had no constipation issues whatsoever. I was more normal than I’ve been for years with 2 easy, quick movements per day. The fiber in crufiferous vegetables is turned into short chain fatty acids by fiber loving gut probiotics which in turn fuel your coloncyte cells in your colon.

[never2late]

Hi Laurie, 1 bm a week for a child sounds unusual. My youngest goes every day and my oldest every 2-3 days. I always make sure they have plenty of fiber. That is a lot trickier in my case, but then perhaps, because of the absence of carbs, possibly also not so much needed.

It does seem like quitting the plant foods was right in your case. My mom is the opposite, swearing by plant foods and saying she can’t eat red meat at all anymore, that it makes her ill. She also says her body can’t deal with fat. Me, I’ve always loved meat, as a child I was quite carnivore-ish, enjoying particularly the fatty cuts whereas my mom would always diligently cut off the fat. So we’re all different and our bodies respond differently. I’m still not entirely sure where I stand with plant foods myself, only that on keto I rather rapidly began losing interest in them and instead began to desire more carnivore foods, and I’m still of a mind to follow that, as I believe eating intuitively.

[Pete_A]

I have a teaspoon of this in the morning during exercise and the before the bathroom. It does the job

Good luck!

[lfod14]

Up your Fiber, no shortage of us that do terrible without it in there. I ignored my constipation for a LONG time and bought into the “We don’t need it” and the “body is more efficient, so less waste” stupidity. That earned me a screaming from my doc, and a colonoscopy to learn that I did some damage and did it all to myself from lack of fiber. Added plenty of fiber back in and was pooping like a human being again within days, and haven’t had a single issue since. That was after YEARS! Fiber the whole damn time!

[never2late]

Thanks Pete, I happen to have flax and chia seeds at least in my cupboard, I did have some this morning and it seems to have helped move things along a little. I am now beginning to think that although my body would be happy just eating carnivore foods, it may have just fallen into that habit of wanting only those foods, and doesn’t necessarily recognise what it actually needs. As when I ate a HCLF diet I was always craving sugary foods, I was eating intuitively then too and gave into all those cravings, but replaced cake and biscuits with vegetables and fruits, nuts, seeds and dark chocolate as well as fruit and nut bars. They were of course not keto foods. But because of this issue with constipation I am going to have to rethink this WOE without having to abandon it. I have been doing away with the carbs, but will have to reinstate them, and ignore the full carbohydrate count and instead focus on net carbs. It is all so individual what works. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[never2late]

It may be some of us just require a lot more fiber while others don’t. I had done away with most of the carbs as my body was anyway losing interest in them, but I think I’m going to have to reinstate them and focus on net carbs. I have to find a way that works, as we all do. Thanks for your reply and for sharing your story. It’s food for thought and I will take it into consideration.

[Shinita]

Yeah, we are all very different. Some people need fiber. Others don’t. My body never cared about fiber, I function with zero, little, adequate, much just the same as far as I can tell. So I don’t care as my body never complains about that.

@never2late, I am curious to see what happens on your own journey in the next months! We can change a lot, phases happen… It will be interesting
You are right, just “eating intuitively” doesn’t necessarily work. My body is pretty “smart” so if I show it the way that suits it better, it clings to it. But before I show it the options, I don’t always magically feel pulled to the right way. Somewhat like I always was big on animal protein sources and had plenty of nutrients but I had to lower my carbs more and more as a conscious effort (more like attitude, it was not a huge effort. staying very low-carb is different but trying a woe that suits me, that was easy enough). And if we aren’t healthy or our mind interferes, it’s even less clear what we actually want. I am all for experiments, they help and they are fun and motivating, at least for me.

[PaulL]

It may be some of us just require a lot more fiber while others don’t.

If experience on this forum is a guide, then there are some people who really need fibre, no matter what, others whose diverticulitis, leaky gut, IBS, or Crohn’s disease require them to abstain from fibre altogether, and many people for whom fibre is a non-issue, either way. I am one of the people who don’t need to worry.

I have to admit, however, that there are two doctors with pithy sayings I really like about fibre. Jason Fung says, “Carbohydrate is poison, and fibre is the antidote. If you’re not taking the poison, why do you need the antidote?” Paul Mason says the idea of taking fibre to cure constipation makes as much sense as putting more cars on the road to alleviate traffic jams.

[scaperdude]

Paul Mason says the idea of taking fibre to cure constipation makes as much sense as putting more cars on the road to alleviate traffic jams.

Well, ironically that can be true. Too much fiber will create a traffic jam. As gut microbes work on it, methane is released as a byproduct. Methane causes the motility of the intestinal tract to slow. Big wads of fiber then have more time to soak up all the moisture, and then you end up with a cement fiber plug in your intestine. We are not ruminants, and simply really aren’t designed for that much fiber. So, like many things healthwise, I go with a good balance of proteins, fats, fiber, and some other carbs. It works for me, and I enjoy eating that way. So now that I am starting keto again, I just cut out some carbs - esp sugar.

[Fangs]

old dieting baggage

Why, that has anything to say about poop? It’s easily possible, I just never heard about it.

many say eat tons of fiber to clean the gut and then experience better weight loss. again, useless ol’ diet info. Some ‘diets’ mention that you should poop ABC or XYZ times and this consistency and more ‘on this diet’ and in the end, bleck…YOU MUST so you must eat the fiber to handle this…wrong info in truth for our bodies with more ‘ol’ stupid’ diet info out there…SO I kinda meant that in my reference

how much ‘old diet’ info have we all read that is stupid as heck Yea with our poop the stupid info is out there too

My bowel movements have settled down to approximately once a day. They’re perfect (according to some standard) and take just a few seconds.

I feel ya on the ‘get to the bathroom and prepare to spend alot of time in there’ and that is wasted time to me and icky too HAHA You sound like me. I am early AM upon waking, get rid of whatever small amt that is in me in a nano second, rocks out, done deal and a ‘friggin’ pleasure’ in the bathroom in my life now. It is then rinse and repeat. Early AM from day eating before and done but with knowing this is truly a monster benefit from what bathroom life was before

Yea we all hate the poop chat but darn if it ain’t truly a huge part of our well being and health ya know ! good post!

[Shinita]

Fiber, of course I met that all the time but not poop frequency… Oh my, another thing impressionable people try to do just right?

how much ‘old diet’ info have we all read that is stupid as heck

Waaaay too many. And I didn’t even diet “normally” ever. I never trusted advice, it was water off the duck’s back if it was me I am pretty hard-headed like that if it’s about my food and my own body that knows better than “experts” let alone stupid ones writing articles in women’s magazines and the like.
Why dieters are into low calorie density I never understood… That was a point where I was highly incompatible with the “norm”. And it’s everywhere, I can’t avoid it. A video of a pretty cute ancient thing, kind of liverwurst? Sounds great for me (the ratios weren’t even fixed!) but the chef says it’s soooo heavy without all the rice, it’s good only for huge people with insane activity.
Well nope as one can eat only the right amount. Not all of us want 1 kg food per meal so it’s no problem if it isn’t low-cal…
So even if someone is fine with lots of fat, they usually want to add lots of watery carbs. Sigh. Well they can, for themselves. But they totally act like it would be the only right way for normal people.

we all hate the poop chat

I don’t. It’s an important part of our health. I don’t want much of it as what to talk about, it’s just fine for me, with 300g or 3g carbs, much or no fiber, much or even more fat… But there are other people, interesting things… I don’t see the problem. I am curious about a bunch of things. I find many other talks more valuable so it should be kept low but that little is fine

[MeganNZ]

Hi @never2late, when I think of constipation I think of poop that is hard to push out (straining) and/or feeling uncomfortable very low down in my abdomen that makes me feel quite out of sorts physically and emotionally. In the absence of either of these things I don’t consider myself constipated, irrespective of how often I go.

I’ve been carnivore approx 6 months. I had watery diarrhea the 1st 6 or so weeks, the kind it’s not safe to fart, then everything settled down. I went once a day for a good while, now it’s more like every 2-4 days. Zero discomfort when I hit day 4, no sensation of feeling a bit backed up. Also, on carnivore, I almost never fart. There’s just no wind being produced when my body digests what I eat.

So my body has zero need for fiber, but I needed to let it go through adaptation, which can be different for different people in terms of gut symptoms, what our stools are like etc. I fully accept other people’s experience of absolutely needing fiber tho if they go zero fiber for a good chunk of time and it really doesn’t work for them.

Is your poop hard to push out? Do you feel backed up?

If you decide to go carnivore, go fully carnivore - i.e. no plants. I, like some carnivores, still drink coffee. I didn’t go carnivore to deal with troublesome gut issues or deal with a medical issue, and I didn’t go carnivore b/c I needed an elimination diet, so am happy to continue drinking coffee while I still enjoy it. I won’t be surprised tho if there comes a time I no longer enjoy it and it fades from my woe.

Anyway, back to what I started saying. If you go carnivore, stop eating plants and give yourself a good 3 months. You have changed up what you eat so many times so far, dropping this and that, re-adding some back, and from reading your postings it seems the reason for these decisions is you experienced xyz and immediately put it down to eating or stopping eating xyz foods. Don’t do this on carnivore. Just remove plants and give it time. You will experience various things, don’t immediately think “oh, I need to add xyz back, my body seems to need it”. Find animal foods you enjoy eating and eat them. What you enjoy may change, just go with the change. Just eat and focus on living your life and give your body a good chunk of time to adapt and settle.

What I eat on carnivore is any animal flesh I enjoy eating (4 legged, 2 legged, no legged), eggs and a usually small amount of dairy - mostly very low carb greek yoghurt (check the info on the containers, some natural/unsweetened yoghurt is stupidly high in carbs), some heavy cream in my coffee, and a few times a week I feel like some cheese. Some folks enjoy their meat more if they add some spices sometimes, I prefer mine with just salt.

[never2late]

Hi Megan, thanks for your reply. What you wrote about there being no flatulance or bloating on carnivore, well I experienced that too. I had no physical discomfort what so ever. But then I read on a medical website that when you go every to to three days you’re constipated. If you go only once a week you are severely constipated. So, following that I decided to add back in some fiber yesterday. And interestingly, I then experienced a lot of bloating, abdominal discomfort and ongoing flatulence. Then you read on medical websites that flatulence is normal, the precursor to being able to go? In the end, last night, I went but it was not smooth sailing and the amount was tiny. Today when I woke up my body wanted carnivore foods again so I made a bacon and cheese omelet. Delicious, and no desire to eat any plants whatsoever. If I just followed the body, yes, I could happily eat and enjoy these carnivore foods. And it may be that the medical sites claiming if you only go once a week you’re severely constipated only adheres to a typical HCLF diet. So I would be more than happy with just continuing to be carnivore and do away with all the rest. It may be though that it’s going to take my body some time to adapt and I’m thinking now of starting to take milk of magnesia or magnesium citrate, as it may help to get me through the adaptation period.

[Shortstuff]

@never2late tbh I think it’s simply a case of less crap in, less crap out. If you’re not uncomfortable and have no issues, don’t stress yourself over it. So much of the medical literature is put out by the same people who push the idea of high carb diets being healthy.

[Shinita]

It’s normal if it’s tiny, carnivore does that. Main thing you don’t have discomfort, feeling you need to go but can’t (I probably call constipation that - or some miraculously symptomless but very serious blockage if that is a thing. it must go out at some point but it depends on what and how much we eat that how long we can store it. I really am not knowledgeable about these things).
The “not smooth sailing” is a problem, tiny amount isn’t necessarily, maybe there is only that much you had to get out this time and there are no huge amount causing problems inside.
I go super regularly as I wrote but it’s quite little on carnivore. Way more if I eat very much carbs. It’s quite logical. Once a week and tiny amount is interesting if you have that but I really have no idea what is okay for people, maybe some are even more efficient than others, we surely eat different amount of food…

it may be that the medical sites claiming if you only go once a week you’re severely constipated only adheres to a typical HCLF diet.

It makes sense that type and amount of food matters. It’s so stupid to use a single number for everyone under every circumstances. Of course if your food produces little waste and you don’t even eat very much, it’s a very different amounts and while my body responds to it with going once a day (a tiny amount, of course), others may collect a “proper” amount and that easily takes days (and maybe they have less waste per day anyway). So a few days should be perfectly normal if there are no problems, it’s just the frequency. I am unsure with one whole week but it probably depends, it seems to me at this point. I never heard about that low frequency without problems before but it may be possible.

flatulence is normal, the precursor to being able to go?

What?
Well we all must have it as far as I know but already on keto many of us lose the noticeable type. It’s odd, I ate so much plant matter on my original, 40g net carbs keto but my originally here and there, not problematic flatulence simply disappeared. Well the noticeable type, some gas must be generated and leave somehow, sometimes I suppose…
If I eat more carbs and especially certain kinds, it immediately comes back.

And people always say one farts like crazy (I mean, a lot, the smell would be more logical) when they eat many eggs.
I ate 8 eggs a day on average and nope, it never happened. It’s due to the carbs, at least for many of us But many carby plants are pretty much famous about it… And more knowledgeable people probably know the reason I always will be bad at Chemistry, apparently.

So you have SOME problems as it doesn’t go smoothly… And I understand you tried fiber but you see it wasn’t the solution, at least not seeds.

I agree with @MeganNZ, you tweak way too much even at the beginning. I really understand experiments but you say your body sooo loves carnivore - and then almost immediately add plants back. It would be hipocrisy from me to tell you to stick to carnivore as I never do that (because I can’t, I do try and maybe one day I will be able to do a whole month or even winter. not fully impossible) but at least try if you have no big problems or small ones where you are very sure some extra will help…?
And it seems you had low frequency even before so it didn’t get much (potentially) worse…? So why the carbs if it’s not a remedy as they didn’t help even before? Maybe you fear that if you tend to be constipated (if that is true and it’s not mere low frequency that is called constipation because we all must follow the mold. we don’t), you need to do everything not to make it “worse” right away? But carnivore is bound to make the waste much smaller…

[never2late]

Hi Shinita, well I am trying carnivore again, that is, to leave the plant foods out of my diet for a while, to up my salt, fat and water intake instead. And to try magnesium citrate, to see if it helps. I did manage to go today, it was still only a small amount, but much more smooth sailing. I used a stool, as I had read that could be helpful somewhere in this forum. I did, however, take some lactulose yesterday, awfully sweet and sickly stuff and I thought never again, but it might have been what worked. Until I added the fiber foods back in I had no symptoms of constipation, but once I did I was feeling bloated, windy and uncomfortable. It doesn’t seem fiber is the solution for me, but I still need a functioning digestive system. So I will try magnesium citrate. Speeking of carnivore foods. This was my delicious breakfast today.

[Shinita]

Pretty too!

[Fangs]

on carnivore, I almost never fart.

This is a huge perk isn’t it? from the old days to what life should be…no big ol’ gas coming outta the guts when it doesn’t have to happen. I almost never too and it amazes me to this day the change in the guts. Plus who wants some of those smells around when ya don’t need them LOL
too funny!!!

@Shinita, glad you are super cool with poop chat! Some can’t hand it but hey, such a nature thing but life now is never speak about natural body issues, how dare we, well, we do HAHA

[PaulL]

But then I read on a medical website that when you go every to to three days you’re constipated. If you go only once a week you are severely constipated.

This advice is intended to stimulate sales of laxatives. There is no set schedule the body needs to be on. As long as you are not having to strain when moving your bowel, you are not constipated.

[CaptainKirk]

For me, after too much fasting (imagine 3 meals a week, MWF) for months.
I lost bile production (Blonde poop, floating poop). Adding ox bile has helped a lot.

One side note. Since adding Ox Bile, I don’t have the extreme tartar build up on
my lower front teeth (on the back mostly)!

Just something to consider.